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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#971

Post by qalmakka »

iainmerrick wrote: post #928
qalmakka wrote: post #916

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because 1. Macs have always had standard ports, such as USB-A and FireWire, and Lightning basically is never used in a master configuration anyway, so it would make no sense to put it on a Mac 2. iPads have just a tiny share of the overall market of iDevices, and they only put USB-C on the most expensive models with the selling point that the port could now be used also in a master configuration, and not only as a sl…

1. Not to get too pedantic, I hope, but Macs have certainly not "always" had standard ports -- before USB, mice and keyboards used ADB! In fact, Apple were fairly early adopters of USB, and arguably helped make it a de facto standard for desktop peripherals. Firewire was also a technical standard but never became widespread; if I recall, it was Apple's attempt to push against the converging industry standards with wh…

1.I was referring to new Macs, at least those that came after Steve Jobs came back (~97). Older computers were a nightmare in terms of ports and incompatibility thereof, the standardisation around the PC platform helped a lot and Apple was for a long time the only company going against that paradigm with its own platform. Also I'm not saying that Lightning can't and isn't used in a master configuration, I'm just saying that's not what it is usually meant to do, and it's seldom used as such.

2. I was there when USB OTG on USB A/B was a thing, and it was _horrible_. The combo A/B micro ports were terrible, and it was rare to find the right cables, let alone accessories compatible with your devices. USB-C has been the first connector that made OTG really a thing, before it was just a crappy experience limited to a handful of devices (Samsung Galaxy, for instance)

> aggressively removing features that 10% of users rely on in order to give what they see as a better experience for the 90% (e.g. removing headphone jack)

I call bullshit on this point. That's simply not true. I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore, it's arguably a crappy experience that was forced by Apple and the industry with moronic justifications to hide the end goal to cut their costs and push people to buy more expensive Bluetooth headphones. The fact Apple did that just before releasing the AirPods and after buying out Beats speaks volumes about what their true goal was. It's just as hypocritical and fake as their "green" push is, they are trying to paint their corporate greed as something beneficial for the world, which is outright despicable. I'd rather buy my products from a company that's unapologetically honest with their customers than one that tries to gaslight you.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#972

Post by AlchemistCamp »

wbsss4412 wrote: post #948
AlchemistCamp wrote: post #914

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Tesla spec still is superior. Europeans just don't get its benefits anymore. The CCS mandate was mostly protectionism and I strongly doubt it would have happened if Tesla were headquartered in Germany.

How is it mostly protectionism? There are currently three different fast charging standards, Tesla’s, CCS, and Chademo, and a vast need for improvements in charging infrastructure. If you don’t have a common standard, you end up with a fragmented network that caps everyone’s utility. Imagine if ICE cars could only get gas from certain types of stations, it’s madness.

> How is it mostly protectionism?

Seriously? The clear leader for a decade has been Tesla, which is based in the US.

Chademo also has a lot of traction and is dominant in Japan and parts of east Asia.

CCS is popular in Europe (along with Tesla).

The EU mandated that all must use CCS, which has never been dominant in terms of technology or market share. It's blatant protectionism.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#973

Post by neop1x »

maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

It's a mess. Using a lower wattage charger (apple or other brand) won't charge a Macbook. If the battery is flat, it won't do anything to it, no sound, no light, macbook looking dead. But if the Macbook is booted up, the same charger can provide enough power to keep it charged forever.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#974

Post by elif »

stouset wrote: post #961
elif wrote: post #820

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"thinner" is not a universally superior quality. It also means "more likely to get bent or broken" which implies "more likely to need replacing" which is one of the direct aims of this legislation.

I have literally never seen or heard of a Lightning plug or port "getting bent or broken". However I have heard of the hidden-male-inside-of-female port of on-device USB-C ports breaking at which point your device is trash.

Well my anecdotal experience is exactly opposite yours, so let's reference the Apple product page as data instead:

"Apple’s lightning-cable product page contains over 2,300 negative reviews of the lightning cable, with an overall rating of 1 out of 5 stars"

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#975

Post by fennecfoxy »

I have never, not once, replaced a USB C cable. To charge my phone (S21 Ultra) I still use the fat (high amps) cable that came with my Oneplus 6T!

Besides the fact that I have a drawer full of usb C cables that have come with other products, I have enough to last me into retirement pretty much.

Whereas every single person I've known who's owned an Apple product has replaced their cable multiple times (heatshrink and or cable coming apart from connector) and they used to get charged $50 for the privilege of buying a replacement!

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#976

Post by lttlrck »

mrtksn wrote: post #233
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

Industry already converged on charging cables though, just Apple is left and they've been moving away from lightning for some time... this legislation is a waste of time.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#977

Post by DeusExMachina »

mrtksn wrote: post #233
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

I am "European", whatever that word means, and I definitely don't trust the government to do something well. It happens sometimes that some governments in some countries do some specific thing well. That's definitely not a general rule.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#978

Post by DeusExMachina »

zaarn wrote: post #927
chmod600 wrote: post #757

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's say I invent a better connector tomorrow. Nobody other than me really knows if it's better or not. The only way for me to convince people is to get it out there in the market so people can try it. How does that work by voting or any other democratic activity? Others will be unconvinced that it's really better, for the same reason people are skeptical of startup ideas until they become mainstream. So nobody will…

If you're designing such a connector, I'm sure you'll have the car manufacturers on board immediately. After all, your connector is better. Not only a tiny bit better, it's much better. The EU will obviously be happy to include your better connector, provided that old cars can use it too via an adapter and new cars can use old connectors via an adapter. Then they can without issue transition to the new connector with…

Unfortunately, bureaucracy usually does not act as fast and as well as your comment assumes.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#979

Post by gwbas1c »

orangecat wrote: post #884
gwbas1c wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Legislators deciding who gets to be VHS and who has to be Betamax is bad, actually. They didn't make the decision. It's more like legislators observing that Betamax is failing and deciding that it's in everyone's best interests to tell Sony that they have to adopt VHS instead of creating confusion in the marketplace. > Tesla's connector is nicer Tesla's system only goes up to 400 volts. CCS goes up to 800 volts. Th…

It's more like legislators observing that Betamax is failing and deciding that it's in everyone's best interests to tell Sony that they have to adopt VHS instead of creating confusion in the marketplace. Or like 1996 when Apple was failing and everyone should have been forced to standardize on Windows.

Windows is not a standard that someone can build an independent implementation and run the same applications.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#980

Post by plonk »

qalmakka wrote: post #971
iainmerrick wrote: post #928

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Not to get too pedantic, I hope, but Macs have certainly not "always" had standard ports -- before USB, mice and keyboards used ADB! In fact, Apple were fairly early adopters of USB, and arguably helped make it a de facto standard for desktop peripherals. Firewire was also a technical standard but never became widespread; if I recall, it was Apple's attempt to push against the converging industry standards with wh…

1.I was referring to new Macs, at least those that came after Steve Jobs came back (~97). Older computers were a nightmare in terms of ports and incompatibility thereof, the standardisation around the PC platform helped a lot and Apple was for a long time the only company going against that paradigm with its own platform. Also I'm not saying that Lightning can't and isn't used in a master configuration, I'm just sayi…

> I do not know a single person that liked or benefited from the switch, except Apple shareholders of course. Everyone, myself included, hates the fact you can't use standard headphones with mobile phones anymore

None of my friends or colleagues care. They use AirPods or wireless headphones on the latest iPhones and are happy with them. Your circles are not representative of the whole population.

I remember using wired earbuds and hating it every time. I don't miss the headphone jack that much. Why would you want to mess with entangled cables when you can just turn your headphones on and have them connect over the air?

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