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The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

teachforamerica.org

71–80 of 922 posts

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

Are there qualifications other than test scores?

In my experience you are nominated to take an IQ-ish test and let in based on that score. I assume they mean test scores on regular coursework?

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

> with similar test scores > with similar test scores > WITH SIMILAR TEST SCORES

I had to look around for the source of this, and I can't find the "with similar test scores" part in the Vanderbuilt site article on the Vanderbuilt study this is based on. It says 66% less likely, but the "similar test scores" part isn't in the same paragraph. I really dislike that it is so difficult to find the source of these statements in modern media, as the news articles I read didn't even cite the study, I had to go googling for it.

What I found: https://news.vanderbilt.edu/2016/01/18/teachers-race-affects...

and of course the link to the gov data source in that article is broken: http://https//nces.ed.gov/ecls/

Edit: I see where they pulled the line from. Misleading at best as the "tests" they are talking about are not gifted assessment tests, but rather standardized testing which I don't think is that great of an indicator. I was in the gifted program during middle school, and that was predicated by a few admittance tests, one of them being IQ.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#73
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unacceptably white is still a horrible way to phrase this. Is the NBA unacceptably black? Why don't we remove basketball courts from inner cities and cut off black kid's feet /s eye roll BTW, I realize he is arguing for the opposite of this. edit: If you think I am racist or something let me spell it out as I did in another comment: It is not unacceptable when white children have opportunities. It is unacceptable whe…

That is a bad analogy because the NBA is not the only accessible path to a stable middle class life while school, for many people, is.

Not even close to true. Going into a trade is a great way to get into a comfortable middle class life. And in those trades, you'll commonly find people who did horrible in school, and thought they were idiots because of it.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#74
post #11

Gifted programs are "unacceptably white". WTF does that mean? I had to pass essentially an IQ test to get placed into those classes. For me, it made a big difference in being engaged in schoolwork when every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes. Edit: I removed "I don't see what race has to do with it." I do see how race can affect this when the gatekeeper is a teacher with…

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

And then also click the provided link, which leads to a summary of the report, claiming that "this is unlikely to reflect teacher prejudice, but availability of 'gifted programs' in predominantly black schools".

In which case, the solution is "fund more gifted programs in schools that lack them", not "defund existing gifted programs".

Which is kinda what the article's author started to argue but never quite got there in the end.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#75
post #11

Gifted programs are "unacceptably white". WTF does that mean? I had to pass essentially an IQ test to get placed into those classes. For me, it made a big difference in being engaged in schoolwork when every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes. Edit: I removed "I don't see what race has to do with it." I do see how race can affect this when the gatekeeper is a teacher with…

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

So you're implying that the conclusion of "unacceptable whiteness" is self-evident by simple examination of these two points... or what?

Perhaps "unacceptably lacking in Black students" is a less divisive way to say this, unless the decisiveness were intended and surely that's not the case.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#76
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

Unacceptably white is still a horrible way to phrase this. Is the NBA unacceptably black? Why don't we remove basketball courts from inner cities and cut off black kid's feet /s eye roll BTW, I realize he is arguing for the opposite of this. edit: If you think I am racist or something let me spell it out as I did in another comment: It is not unacceptable when white children have opportunities. It is unacceptable whe…

[flagged]

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

> with similar test scores > with similar test scores > WITH SIMILAR TEST SCORES

I realize it's just a blog post and not a scientific paper, but the author didn't even cite a source for that statistic. My gut reaction is that it's probably incredibly misleading if not outright false.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#78
What's sad is that the US used to be the vanguard of modern civilization: science, technology, policies (making federalism work in a vast country like the US is an amazing achievement), and human wellbeing in general. And now we are debating common sense. Shame on the progressives.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#79
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why can't we just admit it and quit trying to make people who are unique the same? America keeps conflating equity for equality.

The conflation is a very recent intellectual phenomena.

Why intellectual? It seems more political to me (both in the sense of wanting to change policy and wanting to acquire power)

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

> with similar test scores > with similar test scores > WITH SIMILAR TEST SCORES

Yeah, it's very easy to draw conclusions that suit your agenda when you use slippery terms like "similar." A score of 90 and a score of 100 are "similar" in the sense that they're both an A, but one is a bit more impressive. And that's not even getting into the possibility that the author is using an even broader range of test scores, like "students who make all As and Bs on tests." For all you know, he could then be comparing white students making all As (and being accepted into a gifted program) with black students making all Bs (and not being accepted).

Having the raw data matters.

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