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The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

teachforamerica.org

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Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#61
post #11

Gifted programs are "unacceptably white". WTF does that mean? I had to pass essentially an IQ test to get placed into those classes. For me, it made a big difference in being engaged in schoolwork when every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes. Edit: I removed "I don't see what race has to do with it." I do see how race can affect this when the gatekeeper is a teacher with…

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

ppl keep overlooking this part. it shows how important it is to read slowly and carefully.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

Are there qualifications other than test scores?

There are unwritten ones, at least.

As I said in my other post, in my school you were taken out of regularly classes, but still had to learn those things and do that work. That means the student has to agree to work 20% harder, usually at home, where they may not have that luxury. There are probably other considerations that aren't coming to mind at the moment, too, that also affect the number of children in Gifted programs.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#63
post #11

Gifted programs are "unacceptably white". WTF does that mean? I had to pass essentially an IQ test to get placed into those classes. For me, it made a big difference in being engaged in schoolwork when every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes. Edit: I removed "I don't see what race has to do with it." I do see how race can affect this when the gatekeeper is a teacher with…

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

When I was in grade 3 there was a standardized test for gifted. While standardized tests do have some racial disparity that disparity seems to be far smaller than letting teachers nominate students for a gifted evaluation rather than having it be universal.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#66
post #11

Gifted programs are "unacceptably white". WTF does that mean? I had to pass essentially an IQ test to get placed into those classes. For me, it made a big difference in being engaged in schoolwork when every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes. Edit: I removed "I don't see what race has to do with it." I do see how race can affect this when the gatekeeper is a teacher with…

> every class consisted of reiterating content for days which I had mastered in minutes literally the same experience for me; many people in urban school never became literate in their entire adult lives, let alone math.

So just schools in general, because the teacher has to take care for the whole class and can’t cater to every student.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#68
post #20

Eliminating accelerated or gifted programs doesn't create equality any more than mandating a uniform maximum height will stop people from growing past 2 meters in height. All it does it rob society at large from the possibility of the exceptionally able from realizing their potential sooner. If we're willing, as a body politic, to eschew the possibility of an exceptional learner from discovering things like the cure…

Equity != Equality. Equity is semantically closer to equality of outcome than equality (of conditions/opportunities).

But Equity also argues for treating people differently depending on their needs. Eliminating gifted programs so that all students are treated the same seems to me to be far closer to the equality bucket than any equity one.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just read what he wrote? > Black students are 66% less likely to be identified as gifted compared to white students with similar test scores. Black, Latinx, and Native American students are far less likely to attend a school that even offers a gifted program.

How is that an answer? If someone isn't meeting the qualifications they aren't in. What's "unacceptable" about that?

Because the systems which identify students and enable them to meet the admissions requirements are massively unequal.

I'll give an example. I attended a gifted program starting in 3rd grade. I went to an elementary school for 1st and 2nd grade that was almost entirely white with some asian kids. Part of the mechanism for selecting students for the gifted program was a letter from the student's counselor, teacher, and principal.

My mom noticed that some schools were sending way more kids to the GT program than others. Several schools basically never sent any kids. No surprise, there were more black and hispanic kids at the schools. BUT these schools did not have a lack of students with high SOL scores or grades. It turned out that the process of identifying students and writing letters was letting these kids down. A few years of local activism to adjust the process and suddenly a bunch of kids from these other schools were being admitted to the GT program and succeeding.

Activists recently tried to adjust the admissions criteria for TJHSST, a magnet school in the area, to be a "merit lottery." This says that you set some minimum qualification (minimum GPA and accelerated math coursework) and then select students at random from that pool. This proposal was called racist against south and east asian students and activists were called enemies of excellence by various people like Scott Aaronson.

I was personally identified as having potential for going to TJ at age four. My parents paid a lot of money for me to have tutoring specifically for the admissions test.

In the above example, black and hispanic students with similar qualifications (test scores) are not receiving the same access to accelerated programs.

The point is that the mechanisms by which we define qualifications and select students really really matters and can encode all sorts of inequities.

Re: The case for expanding rather than eliminating gifted education programs (2021)

#70
Gifted children are rare enough that they can be dealt with one at a time. I see no need for special programs. In contrast handicapped children may require special attention.

OTOH I have seen students unwilling to attend a particular school b/c it has a reputation for behavioral problems and also low testing scores. So best spend money on improving education for all.

I would like to see more usage of an old tradition: better students helping others during class. This promotes cameraderie and provides different perspectives for both parties. It always helps to "stand in another man's shoes" and see the world from that new perspective.

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