Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent • Hacker News Board

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#251

Post by zeroonetwothree » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #150

rax0m wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inflation is an increase in the money supply. If you see everything from this lens then it all makes sense. Prices of specific commodities and consumables may rise or fall, but if the money supply and demand remains the same the overall combined price of everything remains the same.

Inflation is an increase in money supply over an increase in the value of things to buy with money (or we could say the size of the economy). Money supply could increase, but if it is balanced with a growth in good supply, inflation doesn’t occur. This is why it can’t be computed directly.

That is not true, inflation is exactly when the money supply increases. It doesn’t matter what happens to “good supply”. In fact the supply of goods increases in response to a price increase. That’s why most people think a low level of inflation is healthy.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#252

Post by cs702 » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:42 PM UTC

arguru wrote: post #64

Estonian here, the situation is getting quite bad indeed, particularly when it comes to petrol/energy prices, which of course has the domino effect of driving up other goods and services in the mid to long term. However, in true Estonian fashion, a lot of people (probably majority) might complain within their familily/friend circle, but will mostly just suffer through it. In fact, 10 years ago, two local comedian-act…

I've personally experienced inflation of greater magnitude -- in a developing country in the 1980's.

It affected behavior in ways that in hindsight were very counter-productive to economic stability: Every adult person and every business simultaneously tried to spend less, earn more, and hoard more -- which is impossible in the aggregate, because every expense by one person or business is income for another person or business. No matter what anyone did, the currency would lose value week after week, month after month. And everyone felt... powerless, unable to do anything about it.

John Maynard Keynes wrote what I think is the most insightful description of what living with high inflation is like: "There is no subtler, no surer means of overturning the existing basis of society than to debauch the currency. The process engages all the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner which not one man in a million is able to diagnose."[a]

[a] The Economic Consequences of the Peace (1919), by John Maynard Keynes.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#253

Post by lapsis_beeftech » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:43 PM UTC

piva00 wrote: post #61

rawbot wrote: post #35

Doesnt' every country calculate their inflation separately? Because living in Germany, that 7% is laughable. Nothing has risen by that little of an amount. Not food, rent, petrol, etc. Well, I do know of something that has risen to less than 7%: salaries.

When I look at the Swedish numbers I feel the same and then I see that prices went down for "photography, audiovisual and computer equipment" and... Nothing else. Fuel is up 40+%, food by 8-10%, housing by 2%, electricity by 30+%. How the fuck do we end up with a normalised rate of inflation of 6-7%?? I do need to do proper research on the models because just using my common sense it doesn't make any fucking sense...

CPI is worthless as an inflation measure for several reasons but the most obvious one is that it is too simplistic; it tries to model spending of some average consumer but actual consumers vary a lot in both their habits and ability to adapt.

For a sense of inflation recently in Sweden, look instead at PPI [1]. Consumers can expect 100% of the cost increase producers see now to get passed on to them eventually.

[1] https://www.scb.se/hitta-statistik/statistik-efter-amne/pris...

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#254

Post by smugma » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

BlargMcLarg wrote: post #207

Tade0 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, in true Estonian fashion, a lot of people (probably majority) might complain within their familily/friend circle, but will mostly just suffer through it. I think this is a generally post-soviet thing.

Eh, this is the attitude in most of Western Europe as well

My French friends/coworkers like to joke that it is the French pastime to complain. It really is a cultural difference, so much so that sometimes I need to explain to American colleagues that Marie/Marc/etc. isn’t particularly upset, it’s just normal for them to complain, and it also can be really healthy. It’s sort of how many engineers (good QA?!) are contrarian by nature.

hopefully someone says “no we’re not!” to prove my point.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#255

Post by fleddr » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #105

toxik wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is exactly what inflation is computed from. Like literally.

Then how can it be only 9%? My gas price has increased by 200% in the last few months. In August, my electricity is going up 400%. Petrol alone has gone up by about 50% compared to few months back. Sure bread is still roughly the same as it was. But living costs have absolutely exploded recently, and far far beyond the 9% indicated.

If you have relatively stable expenses, you can calculate your own inflation just by comparing year to year.

Historically for me real inflation is the formal EU number + 2%. So that means that they're usually about a 100% off as inflation has been low for a long time, until now.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#256

Post by tauntz » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:44 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #155

throwaway4good wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"People in the startup sector earn _much_ more than other sectors - the difference is, if I'm not wrong, one of the biggest in the EU." Do you have a source for this claim? I would be very surprised if that was true.

I think parent lives in some start-up bubble full of rich exciters, as where I live (Austria), start-up exists don't move the needle at all.

> I think parent lives in some start-up bubble full of rich exciters I do.

> as where I live (Austria) start-up exists don't move the needle at all.

I totally believe this as the "% of people who are employed by a startup that has made an exit" is vastly different in Austria vs Estonia.

The total population of Estonia is so small that all exit events stand out. This year, there have been about 40 houses sold in the city I live in (pop 100k) [1]. From that only 7 are newer than 20 years. 7. Meanwhile, there are tens of people here who have been part of at least some kind of exit event during the same period and who are now actively looking for their first house. No other event in any other industry generates a sudden need for new real estate. At least not here in Estonia. There's a) extremely limited supply and b) a massive price increase due to extreme increase in demand (well, "extreme" in the local context)

[1] https://www.maaamet.ee/kinnisvara/htraru/FilterUI.aspx

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#257

Post by at0mic22 » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

_0w8t wrote: post #249

at0mic22 wrote: post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible to use heat pumps for office buildings or factories for instance?

The only problem is retrofitting older buildings. That is somewhat expensive, but entirely possible especially with ground source heat pumps.

But does it require big (or deep) fields for heat exchange?

I mean, lets take a 20-story building, the amount of heating energy it consumes is really high, especially during winters. So you probably would need a soccer-field size heat exchanger in order for the heat to be extracted from the ground.

I bet it will also use quite a lot of electricity to compress the transporting liquid.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#258

Post by em500 » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:45 PM UTC

Normille wrote: post #110

piva00 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I look at the Swedish numbers I feel the same and then I see that prices went down for "photography, audiovisual and computer equipment" and... Nothing else. Fuel is up 40+%, food by 8-10%, housing by 2%, electricity by 30+%. How the fuck do we end up with a normalised rate of inflation of 6-7%?? I do need to do proper research on the models because just using my common sense it doesn't make any fucking sense...

The graph looks really odd to me too. Even allowing for an uneven distribution of inflation rates, The 'Eurozone average' is way down near the bottom, suggesting most countries have above average inflation --which seems a bit like the old oxymoron "80% of motorists consider themselves to be above average drivers"

It's weighted by size of the Eurozone countries household expenditure (which is close to GDP), so basically the only ones that matter are Germany, France, Italy and Spain.

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#259

Post by ssk169 » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

vogre wrote: post #128

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but completely impossible for country like Germany. There is not enough gas without Russian one to feed its industry. Huh, if only they could have invested enough in their local energy sector, through I don't know ... NUCLEAR! , to keep their industry energy independent of Russia, and not shut down its few remaining nukes in the middle of an energy crisis just to appease an outdated political ideology like an absolu…

Why would they do it? Russia never failed delivering cheap gas.

Really? So Russia just didn't stop gas exports to Finland?

Re: Estonia clocks fastest inflation in the Eurozone at 20.1 percent

#260

Post by datashaman » Wed, Jun 08, 2022, 1:46 PM UTC

ipspam wrote: post #250

dontbenebby wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Estonian here, the situation is getting quite bad indeed, particularly when it comes to petrol/energy prices, which of course has the domino effect of driving up other goods and services in the mid to long term. People always focus on the price of gas in America, since it's a large expense and they commute a lot, but no one seems to talk about the effect it has on the prices of anything shipped in a vehicle that use…

Fact check! Gas in Alberta is $1.92/L. There are 3.78L/G(some argue 4l/G) $1.92*3.78 = $7.26/G Or $5.79USD/Gallon. Alberta is the cheapest province for gas. Other provinces are more.

Yeah, but you've got to get there. :P