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Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

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Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#131

Post by aidenn0 »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #104
rscho wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gather you are not a healthcare professional, hence the artificial dichotomy stemming from your perception as an outsider. Medical competency is very difficult to assess objectively. You're good/bad because people say so. There isn't any form of performance feedback.

How can that be? A patient gets diagnosed. There's treatment. There's an outcome. That can't be measured? And assessed? There's data flowing all over the place. But perhaps the lawyers and the insurance stand in the way of improvement?

One example of how it can go wrong:

GP: This condition X is much worse than normal, so I'm going to refer you to Dr. A, the best I know in the field.

Aggregate enough of this and Dr. A has worse outcomes on paper for condition X than everybody else, since s/he gets the patients with the hardest to treat coming in.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#132

Post by BenoitEssiambre »

causi wrote: post #89
giantg2 wrote: post #67

“Incidence rates for deaths directly attributable to medical care gone awry haven’t been recognized in any standardized method for collecting national statistics,” That's because they're hard to standardize. What qualifies as a medical error? It's easy to go back after the fact and analyze a case where someone has a poor outcome and say 'we should have done this another way'. That doesn't mean there was any indicatio…

I'm a little skeptical that there are legitimately 250k that result in unnecessary death each year From purely anecdotal experience, that number is totally believable. Again anecdotally, the medical field seems to only have two kinds of people, the extraordinarily competent and dedicated, and people who don't give a whiff of a shit. The medical bell curve looks more like a bathtub.

Also the later group usually gets paid much more because you can do a lot more billable actions or get better performance statistics, if you only pretend to do medicine.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#133

Post by chiefalchemist »

giantg2 wrote: post #127
chiefalchemist wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can that be? A patient gets diagnosed. There's treatment. There's an outcome. That can't be measured? And assessed? There's data flowing all over the place. But perhaps the lawyers and the insurance stand in the way of improvement?

There are too many variables. You could have two people with the same diagnosis but one has a complication. Even if you do everything 'right' the success isn't 100% because there are slight variations in people and diseases.

Agreed. All the more reason to look for patterns of what works or what might not.

The human body is complex. Why not look for as much help as possible?

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#134

Post by danachow »

sschueller wrote: post #46
DicIfTEx wrote: post #20

And a sizeable portion of that medical error is due to poor device UX: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XJbwN6EZ4I

This is insane. These device UIs should be standardized and any manufacturer making a significant UI change to their product should not be permitted to sell it under the same name and number. The FDA should be looking at this before approving such devices for use. Don't aircraft have more or less standardized controls and displays?

> Don't aircraft have more or less standardized controls and displays?

No, not really. There are similarities in avionics, bare minimum instrumentation and historical conventions but there are type ratings for commercial pilots - they train on each one specifically. Some aircraft are similar enough that they have “common type ratings”. But an Airbus and a Boeing look very different.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#135

Post by nradov »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #133
giantg2 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are too many variables. You could have two people with the same diagnosis but one has a complication. Even if you do everything 'right' the success isn't 100% because there are slight variations in people and diseases.

Agreed. All the more reason to look for patterns of what works or what might not. The human body is complex. Why not look for as much help as possible?

We don't even know what all the factors are, and we don't have a practical or affordable way to gather and record all that data in a high-quality, consistent manner.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#136

Post by pnutjam »

rscho wrote: post #115
reader_x wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdote here, but my friend who is an anesthesiologist (MD) says:(1) anesthesiologists know exactly who the good and bad surgeons are (they see the outcomes and also must manage fluid loss), and (2) bedside manner by surgeons has no correlation to good surgical technique so patients have no idea.

Am also MD and anesthesiologist. This is partly true. The true part is because anesthesiologists are more able to appreciate medical abilities than the layman is. The false part is that people, including colleagues, tend to judge on what they see and hear. Oftentimes, you won't work every day with the same surgeon, so you actually have no idea regarding success/failure statistics. That's why I said you're what people…

I believe "wary" is the work you're looking for. This means the are guarded and maybe suspicious.

Weary means tired.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#137

Post by temp0826 »

marcus0x62 wrote: post #101
causi wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a little skeptical that there are legitimately 250k that result in unnecessary death each year From purely anecdotal experience, that number is totally believable. Again anecdotally, the medical field seems to only have two kinds of people, the extraordinarily competent and dedicated, and people who don't give a whiff of a shit. The medical bell curve looks more like a bathtub.

My anecdotal data (which is primarily second-hand from friends who work closely with doctors in a hospital setting) agrees with your anecdotal data, for whatever that is worth. There are some spectacularly bad doctors out there which the medical system provides cover for, mainly, as far as I can tell, because they generate revenue. It is important to understand that in the American private healthcare system, the doct…

I believe this is a big part of it. Anecdotal as well, but my grandmother had a new leadless pacemaker installed for dubious reasons by a doctor that specialized in this particular type of leadless pacemaker. The pacemaker migrated at one point and it resulted in her chest filling with fluid, the removal procedure was very tough on her (leading to other complications on an already frail body) and marked the beginning of the end for her.

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#138

Post by [deleted] »

causi wrote: post #89
giantg2 wrote: post #67

“Incidence rates for deaths directly attributable to medical care gone awry haven’t been recognized in any standardized method for collecting national statistics,” That's because they're hard to standardize. What qualifies as a medical error? It's easy to go back after the fact and analyze a case where someone has a poor outcome and say 'we should have done this another way'. That doesn't mean there was any indicatio…

I'm a little skeptical that there are legitimately 250k that result in unnecessary death each year From purely anecdotal experience, that number is totally believable. Again anecdotally, the medical field seems to only have two kinds of people, the extraordinarily competent and dedicated, and people who don't give a whiff of a shit. The medical bell curve looks more like a bathtub.

[deleted]

Re: Study Suggests Medical Errors Now Third Leading Cause of Death in U.S. (2016)

#139

Post by jac241 »

danachow wrote: post #126
willcipriano wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't behave like a cartel if you don't want to be called one. From limiting residency slots, making it nearly impossible to hire foreign doctors and lobbying for safe medications that are sold over the counter in the rest of the world to be sold as prescription only in the US. Just to name a few, the AMA has served it's members well to the detriment of anyone buying healthcare in the United States. That to me is a c…

Anytime someone mentions the AMA I just have to ignore them completely. It’s not that the AMA hasn’t done some shady shit throughout the years (especially the 60s), it’s just that in 2022 they are so close to irrelevant that painting them as a boogieman merely shows that your name information is about 50 years out of date. The “medical cartel” as you call it is more and more getting shaped by a number or powerful int…

Amen. The American Hospital Association wields way more power now. Mergers between hospital systems have led to the large hospital systems being among the largest employers in many states, which means that senators and representatives are going to listen to what they want. Certainly more than they do to the AMA, which might only represent like 25% of doctors anymore.
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