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Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

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Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#81

Post by remarkEon »

zozbot234 wrote: post #80
remarkEon wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't really know anything about him beyond all the media the last year calling him the "Progressive DA in San Francisco" ... and then I read his wikipedia page and WEW. I'm genuinely gobsmacked that a) people are surprised he behaved the way he did as DA and b) that some actually thought it was a good idea to elect a communist as chief law enforcement officer. Maybe don't do that? In any case, this is a rare but…

> that some actually thought it was a good idea to elect a communist as chief law enforcement officer. Blame the "tough on crime" crowd for that. They thought he'd be putting everyone in gulags, like any proper communist would.

There are "tough on crime" people in San Francisco?

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#82

Post by pseudo0 »

tptacek wrote: post #4
crhulls wrote: post #3

[flagged]

As I understand it, Boudin barely eked out a win to begin with. Philadelphia is about twice the size of San Francisco, which has outsized visibility in our political culture but is in fact about the size of Nashville. Philly overwhelmingly reelected its progressive prosecutor. There's something to be said for the idea that, ideology aside, you also just have to seem good at the actual job; the job is not simply a ser…

Philly is now setting murder records and has the second-worst per-capita murder rate among large cities. And the DA's office is seeing an unprecedented exodus of staff, with many of Krasner's hires among them. Oh, and congresswomen are being carjacked in broad daylight.

It seems like Krasner just lucked out on the timing of his reelection bid, as during the democratic primary the scope of the problem was not yet apparent. I bet Philly wishes they had a California-like recall mechanism right about now.

https://jonathanturley.org/2021/12/23/exodus-261-philadelphi...

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#83

Post by turtledove »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #72
turtledove wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have a very rose colored view of the world. Some folks are presented with an opportunity to sell (or be an accessory to the sale) and the deal is too good to pass up because the alternative is starving.

"You have a very rose colored view of the world." Perhaps I do, and perhaps I don't. But I'd prefer we discuss the issue than my general view of the world. Let's take your scenario: someone is on the brink of starvation, and an opportunity to sell drugs (and not starve) falls in their lap. They take it (without any prior plan). This is definitely opportunistic. What happens if the above situation is repeated a second…

Look, if the answer is starving or selling drugs, I know what most folks are going to do.

There might not be other opportunities available. Until we've eliminated the threat of homelessness and starvation for everyone living here (which we absolutely could do), there will always be people who had no other choice.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#84

Post by remarkEon »

ren_engineer wrote: post #31

>Crime overall has fallen since Mr. Boudin took office in January 2020 lol, that's pretty easy to do when you just stop prosecuting people. Same way graduation rates increase if you just stop failing people. Who cares about the actual purpose of institutions or whether goals are being achieved, just make sure the numbers are what we want https://twitter.com/DavidSacks/status/1533544746173571079

The more I read about this guy the more he sounds like a villain in Season Six of The Wire.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#85

Post by rvieira »

georgia_peach wrote: post #10

Looks like having a DA raised by Weather Underground was too much, even for San Francisco: " Boudin fell in love with David Gilbert in the 1970s and gave birth to their son Chesa in 1980. When her son was 14 months old, she was arrested and subsequently incarcerated for murder and bank robbery. Her son was raised by former Weatherman leaders Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. "

Children often grow up to hold opposite political views from their parents/guardians as a form of rebellion, so it's not that linear.

A (ethical) social experiment can be made by looking at siblings later in life (e.g. the Hitchens brothers).

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#86

Post by native_samples »

jacobolus wrote: post #69
etaioinshrdlu wrote: post #61

I don't like what I've heard about Boudin at all, but can someone explain how the 40% who supported Boudin might feel about this? What is their motivation? Is it as simple as not worrying too much about crime and believing Boudin's approach is justified?

It’s a gross abuse of the recall process. Recalls should be reserved for flagrant abuses of power, egregious ethical lapses, or profound incompetence. If voters are just unhappy with an elected official, they should follow the normal election process. The SF DA is up for a routine election in November of 2023. Turning recalls into a routine part of politics, where billionaire-backed activists can try to dump a bunch…

Presumably the people who voted for the recall believe he's guilty of all three of those. Certainly, a prosecutor who refuses to prosecute criminals could be described as engaging in profound incompetence. It's hard to get worse at doing your job than outright refusing to do it.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#87

Post by georgia_peach »

rvieira wrote: post #85
georgia_peach wrote: post #10

Looks like having a DA raised by Weather Underground was too much, even for San Francisco: " Boudin fell in love with David Gilbert in the 1970s and gave birth to their son Chesa in 1980. When her son was 14 months old, she was arrested and subsequently incarcerated for murder and bank robbery. Her son was raised by former Weatherman leaders Bill Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. "

Children often grow up to hold opposite political views from their parents/guardians as a form of rebellion, so it's not that linear. A (ethical) social experiment can be made by looking at siblings later in life (e.g. the Hitchens brothers).

You are talking politics--the domain of public policy--where people often disagree on the means, while being mostly in agreement on the ends. I am talking value systems--regarding lawlessness as a tool rather than a dysfunction. Regardless of one's politics, I suspect most people are offended by the idea of using lawlessness in this way--as evidenced by his brief tenure.

Basketball for example: Say the fans see a player traveling. The referee also sees it, but does nothing. How will the fans react? Value systems. Rules are there to be enforced. People get pissed off when the rules aren't enforced, or enforced inconsistently.

I think it goes without saying that apples occasionally fall far from the tree... occasionally.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#88

Post by rvieira »

georgia_peach wrote: post #87
rvieira wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children often grow up to hold opposite political views from their parents/guardians as a form of rebellion, so it's not that linear. A (ethical) social experiment can be made by looking at siblings later in life (e.g. the Hitchens brothers).

You are talking politics--the domain of public policy--where people often disagree on the means, while being mostly in agreement on the ends. I am talking value systems--regarding lawlessness as a tool rather than a dysfunction. Regardless of one's politics, I suspect most people are offended by the idea of using lawlessness in this way--as evidenced by his brief tenure. Basketball for example: Say the fans see a pla…

If we are talking about radicalism (far right or far left), lawlessness, and value systems in general, get intertwined with politics.

Radicals will often see violence and law breaking as a means to an end.

I'm not saying this is the case, I don't know much about Boudin. Just mentioning that sometimes being brought up as a child regarding lawlessness as acceptable can sometimes result in the opposite views as an adult. It's not cut and dry.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#89

Post by tatersolid »

remarkEon wrote: post #81
zozbot234 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that some actually thought it was a good idea to elect a communist as chief law enforcement officer. Blame the "tough on crime" crowd for that. They thought he'd be putting everyone in gulags, like any proper communist would.

There are "tough on crime" people in San Francisco?

There are now.

Re: Chesa Boudin Recalled by San Francisco Voters

#90

Post by drewbug01 »

I’m saddened that - as a society - we can’t seem to get away from the idea that the answer to crime is to “be tough on crime.”

This recall seems to be an expression of our basic urge to punish, rather than any real desire to address the problems that lie at the root of most crime.

We’ve tried the “tough on crime” approach for so many years, and all it’s really done is inflate the prison population (with mostly non-white people, at that).

Hopefully someday we can break the cycle and make real changes that will (in time) reduce crime by addressing the sources of the problem in the first place.

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