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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#891

Post by biztos »

FactolSarin wrote: post #879
biztos wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of innovation in AC power plugs Having lived in a country (Thailand) where both Euro and US plugs work just fine as long as you mind your voltage, I have become quite annoyed at that lack of innovation.

How could both be compatible? US plugs are meant operate at 120 volts, EU at 240. I don't see how both could be supported safely.

> as long as you mind your voltage

It's not the plugs, it's the devices (or more commonly now, the power adapters) that work with 120, 240, or however many volts.

Nowadays many (most?) things take both voltages or, AFAICT -- I'm no electrician! -- anything reasonably close.

So in Thailand, for the most part, you can just plug in your MacBook or whatever and you don't need an adapter for the plug itself. Of course, if you're wrong about the voltage, things might go bad.

And as the other reply noted, this convenience doesn't make it safer, quite the opposite. But I just generally have realized there's a lot of innovation that could be done in plugs and sockets, but isn't being done.

As someone else commented above, the UK plugs are really interesting... but in my opinion maddeningly, unnecessarily big.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#892

Post by biztos »

stubish wrote: post #876
biztos wrote: post #755

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the lack of innovation in AC power plugs Having lived in a country (Thailand) where both Euro and US plugs work just fine as long as you mind your voltage, I have become quite annoyed at that lack of innovation.

In Thailand I became quite annoyed by the lack of grounding. If your sockets where actually modern enough to have ground, it is rarely connected to anything at all, or sometimes just screwed to the wall. Rare to find a ground spike in a dwelling. Common to get zapped by your shower's electric water heater.

My place in Bangkok is a nice modern luxury building... at least it was luxury when they built it 17 years ago, now it's falling apart a bit but the amenities are awesome. The electric is probably grounded straight into the Chao Phraya river. :-)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#893

Post by mrtksn »

Karunamon wrote: post #754
mrtksn wrote: post #723

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What failure? Now everyone knows they are tracked and it's an actual issue. Besides, the websites could have chosen not to have that cookie window.

Most people are more bothered by the annoyance then some nebulous, intangible “tracking“ that will likely never have a visible effect on their lives. Outside of high tech places like HackerNews, mention the tracking and you’ll get a shrug, mention the cookie banners and you’ll get a “yeah I hate that crap“

Sure but, no one cares but everybody knows. This made other legislations like GDPR possible.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#894

Post by Dylan16807 »

kanetw wrote: post #856
gbraad wrote: post #854

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Marker chips are 'optional' for USB-C, but essential for Lightning You can also directly feed the needed voltage without the negotiation. So this is only partially true.

A compliant USB-C source will not provide more than 5V/3A without PD negotiation period, and is only guaranteed to provide default USB power. So if you can potentially draw more, you need to check whether it's allowed.

You need a chip in the power supply for that, but you already have a chip in the power supply because switching supplies are massively cheaper.

You don't need a marker chip in the cable unless you intend to go over 20V/3A.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#895

Post by shawnz »

Fernicia wrote: post #885
shawnz wrote: post #878

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in the 15 years since micro-USB was developed, that is just one vendor which has been able to produce something better, and it happens to be the most valuable corporation in the world with access to economics of scale that no other manufacturer could compete with. Are you saying that's a valid justification that allowing manufacturers the freedom to innovate on charging ports is more important than interoperabilit…

And your argument is that because innovation has, arguably, slowed (not even halted!) you are happy mandating the current standard. It's a good thing there is so little innovation coming out of the EU or else their wreckless legislators could have actual impact.

Yes, exactly: the tiny amount of genuine innovation that exists in this particular area is not worth giving up interoperability and regressing back to the pre-micro-USB world of mostly terrible, rarely innovative proprietary connectors from every different vendor.

> their wreckless legislators could have actual impact.

I think the positive impact of the currently existing micro-USB legislation is clear if you look back at the status quo before it existed. This new legislation simply improves upon it.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#896

Post by bonzini »

chroma wrote: post #779
bonzini wrote: post #750

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is not just the time to charge a single car but the capacity in cars/hour. First, if a car takes five times longer to charge, you need a lot more space to cover the needs for peak days. This may not be a problem on highways (or in the US) but space in Europe is much more limited. Second, a smallish 6-pump filling station serves 150-200 cars per hour. An equivalent charging station would need 12-15 MW whic…

It's hard to calculate how many charging stations will be needed. Most EV owners plug their cars in at home and wake up every day with a full charge. They only use charging stations for road trips. Also charging stations can be installed in far more places than gas stations. There are no hazardous fumes or massive fire risks. They don't require nearly as much maintenance or staff. For these reasons it's common to see…

The problem is the peak demand on the road trips, such as everybody doing hundreds of km on the same days to go on vacation. Using the car for your summer holidays is quite more common in Europe than in the US for example.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#897

Post by kibwen »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #800
kibwen wrote: post #644

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, eight, because you'd have two each for diesel and each of the three octanes.

Octanes don't need separate nozzles.

You're right, I don't know what I was thinking. You'd just need four. :P

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#898

Post by krzyk »

troad wrote: post #805
krzyk wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, EU uses a single plug, it is called "Type C" (no, not USB-C). What you might find in some poorer regions in EU is old plugs that were there pre-EU, or prestandardization. I can say that, because Brexit happened, I have no clue what those were thinking when designing their own gigantic plug.

This is just not true. Denmark and Italy use their own plugs; Ireland, Malta, and Cyprus use the British plug; and the heart of the EU is divided between French-style and Schuko plugs. (Switzerland, though outside the EU, also uses its own plugs.) As I understand it, EU moves to standardise plugs failed in the 90s.

Oh, right I forgot about Malta (basically UK mini) and Cyprus.

But Italy has the "normal" (schuko or French) plug. The old one (three holes in line) are in older houses mostly.

My previous data was based on my travel in EU. Now I'm corrected.

But there is a standardized plug that fits both schuko and French style sockets. That was probably why I didn't notice it earlier.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#899

Post by perilunar »

There's a lot of Apple hate here. It's worth remembering that 1) Apple was the first PC company to standardise on USB-A, and 2) Apple iPhone and iPad chargers have always had USB-A sockets until the recent change to USB-C — the chargers have always used non-proprietary sockets; only the cables were different.

(Some of The early iPod chargers had a Firewire 400 socket.)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#900

Post by tacitusarc »

heretogetout wrote: post #377
tacitusarc wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was unable to find any record of legislation forcing standardization of gas pump form factors. Also, in my experience different pumps operate at different rates. I think the fact that pumps tend to be quite similar is a result of their mechanical nature, where less precision is required.

Check this out: > (f) Every retailer and wholesale purchaser-consumer shall equip all gasoline pumps from which gasoline is dispensed into motor vehicles with a nozzle spout that meets all the following specifications: > (1) The outside diameter of the terminal end shall not be greater than 0.840 inches (2.134 centimeters). > (2) The terminal end shall have a straight section of at least 2.5 inches (6.34 centimeters)…

Fantastic, that’s exactly what I was looking for, thank you! I thought maybe there would be an earlier law, this one is about 100 years after the advent of cars. I suppose we’re close to thirty years past what could reasonably be considered the advent of cell phones, so maybe legislation about now is reasonable.

I appreciate the find.

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