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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#851

Post by ericd »

arcticbull wrote: post #656
ericd wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think this might discourage them from investing the R&D to make something that’ll require a fight to release?

Since they've been using Lightning for about 10 years now, I'd say there's other things that are inhibiting their innovation. I suspect it has more to do with third-party accessory manufacturers. Unless you're suggesting that connector innovation requires at least a 10 year iteration cycle?

Yeah, people generally don’t want to have to throw out all that stuff after a short period of time, and after a long period, they’ve got even more money invested in that setup, so if it’s not broken… there’s just not really much of a compelling benefit to change types from the perspective of most normal people, and there are concrete downsides in the form of money sunk into it.

Anyway, I like USB-C more, I have to carry them anyway, so it’d eliminate one cable when I travel. We’re as close as I’ve ever seen to having the one cable to rule them all, which is pretty cool.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#852

Post by thomasahle »

nonethewiser wrote: post #759
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

> The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, Wait, what? That's idiotic

Idiotic? It's a pretty smart and simple way to incentivice manufacturers to ship devices that work with standard USB-C cables.

It may be annoying if you don't already own a bunch of USB-C cables. But who doesn't?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#853

Post by kanetw »

Evidlo wrote: post #849
kanetw wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. On top of that, I feel like USB-C is deliberately engineered to sell more ICs. Which wouldn't be that huge of an issue except as a result, all relevant ICs are sold out (or unsuitable). CC/PD use a custom transmission standard so you can't implement it without a PHY, which basically means at least one dedicated IC.

Well you can still do USB2.0 over USB-C for all your low-speed, low-power gadgets.

Yeah, that's about the only thing you can do without ICs. 500mA max, high-speed lanes unused.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#854

Post by gbraad »

kanetw wrote: post #812
paulmd wrote: post #771

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. because the USB-IF historically has struggled to reach enough consensus from its stakeholders to allow innovation to take place. The entire reason that lightning exists in the first place is because USB-IF couldn't agree on a replacement for micro-B (which everyone agreed clearly needed improvement!) and one of the members just had t…

Absolutely. On top of that, I feel like USB-C is deliberately engineered to sell more ICs. Which wouldn't be that huge of an issue except as a result, all relevant ICs are sold out (or unsuitable). CC/PD use a custom transmission standard so you can't implement it without a PHY, which basically means at least one dedicated IC.

Marker chips are 'optional' for USB-C, but essential for Lightning

You can also directly feed the needed voltage without the negotiation. So this is only partially true.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#855

Post by [deleted] »

tleilaxu wrote: post #827
solarkraft wrote: post #657

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs Mandatory Tom Scott video about bri'ish power plugs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q :-)

British plugs are the only thing I will ever get nationalistic about. They’re great. Hurt like a sod to stand on if the prongs are face up though!

[deleted]

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#856

Post by kanetw »

gbraad wrote: post #854
kanetw wrote: post #812

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely. On top of that, I feel like USB-C is deliberately engineered to sell more ICs. Which wouldn't be that huge of an issue except as a result, all relevant ICs are sold out (or unsuitable). CC/PD use a custom transmission standard so you can't implement it without a PHY, which basically means at least one dedicated IC.

Marker chips are 'optional' for USB-C, but essential for Lightning You can also directly feed the needed voltage without the negotiation. So this is only partially true.

A compliant USB-C source will not provide more than 5V/3A without PD negotiation period, and is only guaranteed to provide default USB power. So if you can potentially draw more, you need to check whether it's allowed.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#857

Post by oldgradstudent »

solarkraft wrote: post #657
robonerd wrote: post #637

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

> Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs Mandatory Tom Scott video about bri'ish power plugs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UEfP1OKKz_Q :-)

Except that they're huge.

Can't the same safety features fit in a smaller package?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#858

Post by kanetw »

danhor wrote: post #847
kanetw wrote: post #837

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without CC line sensing, you don't know how much current you're allowed to draw. Screenshot from the standard: https://i.kane.cx/EI4HtM Specifically, the sink has to detect vRd to determine how much current it can actually draw. E: sorry, to clarify: 2 resistors is fine, but you also need line sensing. So that's at least a few comparators or an ADC or whatever. Or a dedicated IC.

Ah, the good 'ol legacy USB issue (for anything under 1.5A). The standard provides a way for simple devices (page 218, PSD), to just draw up to 500mA [0]. But TBH, legacy USB charging is such a mess, I'd just always assume 1.5A and hope for the best. (for USB 3.0 900mA you at least need a USB Device to detect it, I'm not sure if a 3.0 device is needed). [0]: 500mA in default current and the other options provide more…

Yeah, it always gives you default power. It's just such a low amount that I kinda forgot.

Sometimes it's just fine to yolo it, but it adds to the confusion-- "I plugged in my device and it doesn't work??"

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#859

Post by drtjsw4ju »

robonerd wrote: post #637
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

What a shock, the European argument is "But why do you need so much innovation?" Pretty much summarizes their place in the world in a nutshell.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#860

Post by ciupicri »

maest wrote: post #794
ciupicri wrote: post #679

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking of cars and standardization, I'm still waiting for the European Union to put the steering wheel on the left side of the car and while we're at it, make it mandatory to drive on the right side of the road.

Is your point that since there exist a standard which occurred without government intervention, then the government should never intervene to create any standards?

No, the point is the UE can't standardize even this "simple" thing.
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