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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#771

Post by paulmd »

robonerd wrote: post #637
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

> I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway.

because the USB-IF historically has struggled to reach enough consensus from its stakeholders to allow innovation to take place. The entire reason that lightning exists in the first place is because USB-IF couldn't agree on a replacement for micro-B (which everyone agreed clearly needed improvement!) and one of the members just had to shrug and go do it themselves. Once one of the members had gone there and proven the concept, it lit a fire under the asses of the rest of the consortium.

Same for why thunderbolt exists as a standard and not as USB 4 in the first place... not enough consensus to go there as an official standard rather than an extension. It took what, 10 years after Thunderbolt was standardized before we finally pulled ourselves out of the fecal lagoon of USB 3.x standards?

And then you layer in the dysfunction from the members that are primarily interested in creating consumer confusion with the USB 3.0, USB3.1 Type-1, USB 3.1 Type-2, USB 3.2 Type-1, USB 3.2 Type-2, USB 3.2 Type-2x2 nonsense so that they can deceptively and maliciously sell yesterday's hardware with tomorrow's standard on the box... many of the members of USB-IF are interested in actively stalling progress if it means they save 30 cents on their BOM.

This is not an organization with consumer interests at heart. They are a bad choice to be the legal guardian (more like, conservator) of all innovation.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#772

Post by rbanffy »

microtonal wrote: post #420
rbanffy wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would Amazon be selling non-compliant cables? Wouldn't that kind of be against the law?

Well, with Amazon's co-mingling, you can't be sure that even brand cables are authentic.

That's not a problem a standard can solve.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#773

Post by coolspot »

sydd wrote: post #739
kennywinker wrote: post #715

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As far as a I know, in the history of smartphones - which I'd say starts in 2007 with the launch of the iPhone - there have only really been 4 (or maybe 5) connectors used on widely sold phones: 1. Apple 30pin "iPod" connector 2. Apple Lightning connector 3. Mini USB (I don't think this ever appeared on anything but blackberries and cheapo flip phones?) 4. Micro USB 5. USB-C So, while I agree that cable changes are a…

Except that the current USB-C situation is a mess, and this regulation plans to solve this. I got a pretty expensive HP monitor for work from my company that connects via USB-C (and can charge my Mac). IT has sworn me to not loose its USB-C cable because for some unknown reasons it refuses to work with other cables, it costs >$100 and is constantly out of stock.

Oculus Link for example is a USB-C cable that is not copper, but optical. This allows it to have very high bandwidth and long length (16ft/5m).

Hence the price.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#774

Post by paulmd »

hwbehrens wrote: post #733
notJim wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very strange to read this comment on article about USB, which has been developed by committee from the beginning. To me it seems quite innovative, and arguably disruptive to have a single standard for all these things. Maybe USB doesn't clear your personal bar, but then why worry about this at all?

I can't be sure, but my interpretation of the parent's comment is that the USB-IF would never have thought to work on USB-C at all until Lightning's release two years earlier. The whole forehead-slapping moment of cables that didn't need to be flipped was a pretty big divergence from the USB-A, -B, mini B, micro B, etc. that has prevailed previously. The kernel of the argument being, Apple's "innovation" by rejecting…

> my interpretation of the parent's comment is that the USB-IF would never have thought to work on USB-C at all until Lightning's release two years earlier

it's actually worse than that, there was extensive discussion of what to do next since micro-B was still obviously flawed, they just couldn't reach a consensus to take any action even after years of debate.

the thing to remember is that USB-IF isn't a benevolent organization of technology companies working together to set a direction for the future - many of them are primarily interested in reducing their own costs, which is why we got the "USB 3.x Gen 2x2 Wave 2: USB Harder" crap. Many of the players at USB-IF are specifically interested in stalling progress as long as it saves them 30 cents on their BOM.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#775

Post by maccard »

bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I was one of the Nintendo switch commenters in this thread - the problem I have is standardising on the connector without enforcing the underlying standards. This doesn't fix the charging problem or the cable problem, it just means that the all devices fit together, even if they don't actually deliver what they're supposed to.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#776

Post by fiddlerwoaroof »

robonerd wrote: post #637
bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

MagSafe-style charging connectors are an innovation that, IMO, justifies breaking compatibility. I dislike this forced standardization on USB-C because USB-3/USB-C is a user-hostile nightmare standard.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#777

Post by paulmd »

layer8 wrote: post #720
bushbaba wrote: post #609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, innovation does shift to circumventing the regulation. Such-as removal of the charging port all together, and moving to magsafe-qi charging https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MHXH3AM/A/magsafe-charger

…which wastes energy and reduces battery life. Great innovation.

it's always interesting to me that people ignore the ecological impact of cables. If you break four cables over the life of the phone from plugging/unplugging, and that results in 2 or 3 additional Amazon Prime trips to deliver your cables, how does that compare in terms of environmental impact to wasting 5 additional watts for the 1 hour a day you charge your phone?

(and don't tell me everybody uses Amazon Prime day shipping... people just order new cables when they break. And sure, you can have one common pool of all your cables... sort of! except for the part where cable X or charger X doesn't fast-charge device Y, so you actually need several pools of chargers and cables...)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#778

Post by skykooler »

delecti wrote: post #613
treis wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The average person would have to pick and choose stations Stations would just have two nozzles on their pumps.

Well, three, because diesel pump nozzles are already a different standard.

Diesel pump nozzles actually have multiple standards - there's one about the same size as a gas nozzle that's used for diesel cars and pickups, and a bigger one that's used for trucks and buses.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#779

Post by chroma »

bonzini wrote: post #750
moduspol wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't have to be equivalent. Just being comparable from a user experience and business case perspective would be enough. Getting it down to five minutes to fill to 80% may be sufficient. Right now it's 15-20 minutes.

The problem is not just the time to charge a single car but the capacity in cars/hour. First, if a car takes five times longer to charge, you need a lot more space to cover the needs for peak days. This may not be a problem on highways (or in the US) but space in Europe is much more limited. Second, a smallish 6-pump filling station serves 150-200 cars per hour. An equivalent charging station would need 12-15 MW whic…

It's hard to calculate how many charging stations will be needed. Most EV owners plug their cars in at home and wake up every day with a full charge. They only use charging stations for road trips. Also charging stations can be installed in far more places than gas stations. There are no hazardous fumes or massive fire risks. They don't require nearly as much maintenance or staff. For these reasons it's common to see charging stations in parking garages, in front of hotels, or even next to the beach[1].

1. https://imgur.com/a/vd4dStk

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#780

Post by rubatuga »

agloeregrets wrote: post #234
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

On the other hand, companies building wholly proprietary infrastructure is just pure e-waste on the back of the citizens of those countries that ALSO limits innovation. Imagine a world where Ford cars use a different gas nozzle from a GM product in the US. The average person would have to pick and choose stations and if one were to go out of business, the lesser standard would encounter mass disposal and retrofit, al…

We should also mandate the reduction of open source projects, after all there are too many competing standards. We don’t want code to be wasted now do we? Let’s start by banning the use of Tensorflow
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