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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#761
post #727

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that because some places have 230V and neutral, while others have -115V and +115V (yes like in the US but in Europe)? There's a single neighborhood in Rome where that happens and car chargers don't work. The "solution" is to request a three-phase 400V connection: the utility company can't deny it and it must be 220V to neutral.

I would like to live in the alternative reality were all AC is three-phase AC; probably it would be uselessly more expensive for normal domestic stuff but it would be quite cooler.

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#762
post #695

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

What's wrong with "charger thing"? I was waiting for that for years. And GDPR? Really?

It's not anyone's business what kind of phone I buy. If chargers pollute so much, just tax them and be done with it.

I'll add to kukx's reason the fact that I can't access some websites anymore because who wants to spend time with bureaucracy so that the website is 100% compliant with GDPR?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#763
post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

Speaking of cars and standardization, I'm still waiting for the European Union to put the steering wheel on the left side of the car and while we're at it, make it mandatory to drive on the right side of the road.

In another generation, cars will be self driving and this will just be a code change.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#764
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

This argument would sound less hollow if there weren’t two existing superior (from a user experience perspective) alternatives already on the market. Apple’s Lightning (thinner than USB-C) and MagSafe (safer than USB-C for charging laptops… so glad Apple is transitioning back to it for M2 Airs)

Lightning cables don't last. They are a complete disaster. And that's not even considering how a little bit of dust can prevent your device from charging at all, and lightning ports are a complete dust magnet.

But the best argument against "what about lightning?" is the fact that Apple themselves don't use it on their higher powered devices like macs, and use USB-C instead.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#765

Earlier quoted context omitted.

who needs breakthrough innovation for a charger? It's like the C++ programming language, I just want it to work everywhere. Programming languages have been designed by committee just fine.

Ok. Go back 5 years and standardise on the ubiquitous usb-mini — usb-a solution. Why does my next phone need a charger? I’d be happy with wireless charging — especially if I have a 3.5mm socket in the phone too.

It would have been bad to standardize on USB-B and it will be good to standardize on USB-C. These aren't mutually exclusive statements.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#766
post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

It's kind of sad to me that Apple doesn't make Lightning an open standard. In all my years, I haven't had a single Lightning connector fail on me. The solid metal where the contacts reside is just too robust to wear out or get damaged (unless you somehow step on it the right way or let it corrode). USB-C connectors, on the other hand, seems to loosen after a rather small number mates and de-mates, leading people to u…

I think it’s more of a quality thing. Apple makes great usb c cables as well which seem to last forever. While the cheap eBay crap wears out quickly.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#767

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

Sure, the Tesla connector is smaller, and a little sleeker. But from a functionality perspective, the plug types are basically identical. Both allow AC standard charging and DC fast charging. Electric cables aren't that complicated.

Compared to CCS, Tesla made a ton of smart decisions with their charging setup:

- All Teslas have their charging ports at the rear left side. This means that charging cables can be very short. Longer cables would cause tangles, cost more, and be harder to cool.

- Tesla's protocol has built-in payment. You plug in and charge. With CCS it varies. Sometimes you use a credit card. Sometimes you download a mobile app and sign up for some account. Sometimes the planets align and CCS's plug-and-charge works.

- The CCS plug is much bigger. If you look at the connector sizes[1] or adapters[2], the CSS plug is comically huge. Tesla had to redesign the tail lights on the Model S/X to fit CCS Combo 2 ports.

- Every exposed contact is a potential failure point, and CCS exposes more contacts than Tesla's charging port.

- CCS has two different plug dimensions which are used in different regions, so a European CCS vehicle brought to North America will need an adapter (and vice-versa).

- If your vehicle only supports AC charging, you cannot charge with CCS Combo plugs. They won't fit. Since some Teslas were made before the CCS Combo standard took off, older Model S/X's used a CCS Type 2 port. So now every Supercharger in Europe has two plugs: CCS Type 2 & Combo 2.[3]

1. https://teslatap.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/06/connector_co...

2. https://www.notateslaapp.com/images/news/2021/ccs-adapter.jp...

3. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Eu-tesla-supercharge...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#768
post #11
post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

> It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec.

Which means 1 spec is not sufficient for interoperability

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#769
post #751

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see why "What about innovation?" is taken seriously as an argument anyway. USB-C is more than adequate, we could coast with it for the next hundred years. Nobody is kept up at night by the lack of innovation in AC power plugs, the standards countries have settled on today, while not all equivalent, are all generally satisfactory in practice. Problem solved; stop fixing that which ain't broke and move on to ot…

This argument would sound less hollow if there weren’t two existing superior (from a user experience perspective) alternatives already on the market. Apple’s Lightning (thinner than USB-C) and MagSafe (safer than USB-C for charging laptops… so glad Apple is transitioning back to it for M2 Airs)

Lightning isn't as fast as USB 3.0 (which USB C cables should support), and can't supply as much power as USB-PD (which, again, works over USB C cables)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#770
post #744
post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems like history of computing goes against this

When in history has interoperability not been a catalyst for innovation? Look at everything people do in browsers now. Or if that's not to your taste, perhaps the era of BASIC is a better example. Not all standards are good, but a decent standard is better, or at least much more practically useful, than a lot of better but incompatible proprietary equivalents. Of course it doesn't have to be mandated, and in the past…

When in history has interoperability not been a catalyst for innovation?

Most of it, including most of the history of computers.

Competition almost always breeds innovation. It's basic economics, and why people get upset by monopolies and such.

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