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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#541

Post by nybble41 »

mmastrac wrote: post #334
tokamak-teapot wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure they are clear what they are solving. The statement says: "European consumers were frustrated long with multiple chargers piling up with every new device" This was solved by companies no longer providing chargers with new devices. When you buy a new phone, you use your existing charger, only buying a new one when you actually need it. If you buy a new iPhone, you get a cable that plugs into a USB-C charg…

> I'll spend the next 20 years realising I have the wrong white phone charging cable with me > I still won't trust random USB-C cables > I still won't trust random USB-C chargers My answer to all three of these is the same: Why? My phone charges with every crappy USB cable and charger. Heck, my laptop will trickle charge [!] off a crappy cable on a crappy airline USB-C port. There's one place where I'm very careful a…

> [!] Amusingly, my laptop won't actually charge off the _standard_ A/C plugs on most airplanes because the 100W charger blows a soft fuse that requires unplugging and replugging the A/C adapter!

To be fair, 100 W may not seem like a lot when you're used to plugging in to the national power grid, but it's a lot to ask for a non-essential system supplied by an off-grid generator shared by hundreds of passengers. And 100 W is the maximum allowance for In-Seat Power Support Systems according to the FAA, before any conversion losses in your power adapter; the actual amount available to you may be much less.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#542

Post by kmlx »

dundarious wrote: post #479
option wrote: post #472

Bureaucrats gonna bureaucrat … What will happen when a company (outside EU for obvious reasons) introduces clearly superior standard? The EU will wait for its bureaucracy to catch up?

There is no benefit to new standards coming out all the time in this domain. There is major benefit to standardizing for many years at a time.

> There is no benefit to new standards coming out all the time in this domain.

actually, there are huge potential benefits for both the users and the company that launches them. faster charging, better ports, smarter cables etc etc etc

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#543

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

8ytecoder wrote: post #415
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Just pick a couple of those USB-C docks on the market and check how many are actually working for you. 1) How is it the spec's fault that random OEMs go to extreme cost cutting measures in order to price dump themselves to the bottom by not following the spec? Of course they won't work properly. But again, for the 100th time, that's not the specs fault that manufacturers actively choose to ignore it. If a driver cho…

Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point? If the switch isn’t actually working as intended they shouldn’t be allowed to call it usb-c. There should be some minimum mandatory requirements. I haven’t studied these spec, but if there exists a min spec to qualify to call yourself USB and the switch case isn’t covered, OR, there’s no minimum spec, it IS…

>Well, if a spec has no validation procedure, compatibility enforcement or certification, what’s even the point?

What is the point of anything then? Most pieces of tech we take for granted are an unregulated bundle of specs that more or less work together with one another most of the time well enough to be valued at several trillions and be in every household.

If you want to regulate and certify every USB-C cable in your household then increase prices would stop the adoption of any such tech and you would then complain about the costs and over-regulation.

The EU is already regulating USB-C into place. How much more regulation do you want?

Let's not let 'perfect' be the enemy of 'good'. Remember 20 years ago when every phone and electronic widget in your house came with its own proprietary cable and proprietary interface and included CD with proprietary Windows-only software to work? Yeah! Lost the original cable/dock with the proprietary 20-pin connector? Good luck with that mate.

Yes, USB-C still has teething problems due to manufacturers cutting costs and fighting tooth and nail against standardization so they can keep their walled garden rent seeking models of the past (remember Sony shoving their proprietary Memory-Stick everywhere despite SD cards having won?), but despite these issues, we've never had it so good in terms of cross-compatibility as we have it today and this push for USB-C everything is a step in the right direction.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#544

Post by tokamak-teapot »

mmastrac wrote: post #334
tokamak-teapot wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure they are clear what they are solving. The statement says: "European consumers were frustrated long with multiple chargers piling up with every new device" This was solved by companies no longer providing chargers with new devices. When you buy a new phone, you use your existing charger, only buying a new one when you actually need it. If you buy a new iPhone, you get a cable that plugs into a USB-C charg…

> I'll spend the next 20 years realising I have the wrong white phone charging cable with me > I still won't trust random USB-C cables > I still won't trust random USB-C chargers My answer to all three of these is the same: Why? My phone charges with every crappy USB cable and charger. Heck, my laptop will trickle charge [!] off a crappy cable on a crappy airline USB-C port. There's one place where I'm very careful a…

I’ll have the wrong cable with me because I’m just bad at having the right stuff with me anyway. Adding to my confusion is fine though. I’ll just buy particular colours or cable or put tags of them or something.

I don’t trust random cables to plug into my phone because I’m paranoid about getting hacked. I access some systems with sensitive data via my phone and I don’t want to be the route of compromise.

I don’t trust random chargers not to set my house on fire while I sleep, or - worse - fail to charge properly and I don’t have enough charge left to run the crossword app on my phone.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#545

Post by tediousdemise »

bloppe wrote: post #485

A lot of people saying "USB-C cables aren't even compatible with each other!" (Nintendo switch etc.) Guess what: that's exactly the problem this regulation is intended to solve. Fake USB-C cables like Nintendo's that have the right shape but do not adhere to spec should gradually disappear along with lightning cables. The regulation actually says that cables can no longer be bundled with the devices themselves, so Ni…

It's kind of sad to me that Apple doesn't make Lightning an open standard.

In all my years, I haven't had a single Lightning connector fail on me. The solid metal where the contacts reside is just too robust to wear out or get damaged (unless you somehow step on it the right way or let it corrode).

USB-C connectors, on the other hand, seems to loosen after a rather small number mates and de-mates, leading people to use preemptive workarounds such as magnetic connectors.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#546

Post by univerio »

mattnewton wrote: post #468
miohtama wrote: post #443

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Macbook Pro charger charges Nintendo Switch, so maybe this was fixed later? Switch is 2017 device.

For me, it will charge but not power the dock for playing on a TV.

There's a specific PD profile (15V IIRC) that your charger needs in order to be able to power the dock, and older MacBook chargers didn't have it.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#547

Post by mig39 »

onphonenow wrote: post #504

I thought they'd made Micro-USB a standard. Funny to see them go to a "new" standard based on market I like lighting better (audio latency on lighting is fantastic) than USB-C.

The funny thing is that when this was first proposed by the EU, the connector they proposed was the USB-Mini connector. Imagine if that had been successful.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#548

Post by varajelle »

colejohnson66 wrote: post #453
jayd16 wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together I never understood this sentiment. That would be even more true if USB-C wasn't the standard so I don't really understand the complaint. Obviously "same shape" isn't an indicator that it will "just work" for USB-C, so why would we expect that to be the case for anything else with modern complexity? It would be nice if fits == work…

Because USB has always been, "if it fits, it works (possibly with a driver)". Maybe not explicitly, but it was widely understood to be that. USB-C, OTOH, with all its modes and whatnot, make it so I can't tell what my device supports, and a driver installer won't fix it. Basically, things that require extra ICs are now being shoved into "one connector for all" thing with no way of telling them apart.

> if it fits, it works

No, that was already not the case with USB 3 devices not working when plugged in a USB 1 slot. Not made easy when some computer or hub have both USB 3 and USB 1 port on the same machine and you must remember the color code.

I recall that one time when I tried to configure the bios of a computer and the keyboard wouldn't work in the bios because it was connected to the "wrong" usb port that was not powered in that stage of the boot

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#549

Post by RF_Savage »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39
Nextgrid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simp…

>It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. People and companies can screw thing up royally regardless of spec complexity when there's no review/oversight involved. That's not a valid argument. If you want to force and check adherence to a spec you need to involve certification authorities (TÜV, SGS, UL, etc.) but then widget prices would increase dramatically. Edit: to address the child…

Wasn't USB-C power delivery spec 600pages long on release?

And now with the addition of the 48volt high power charging mode it is even longer with more requirements.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#550

Post by varajelle »

maccard wrote: post #384
samiru wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. We clearly need more regulation.

Indeed, but this isn't the regulation we need unfortunately

We need more color codes and symbols maybe?
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