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Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

electronicsweekly.com

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Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#61

Post by dgellow »

alaricus wrote: post #53
dgellow wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want to create an Intel competitor from scratch that will be way, way more than 5.5 billions and will take a ridiculous amount of time.

You don't need to create an Intel competitor from scratch. For example the same money can be better invested in Infineon, ASML, Bosch or a number of local companies that work on chips. Or it could be put into RISC-V work.

I don’t get your point. What you describes sounds exactly like the goal of such a subsidy. With new Intel factories in Europe that means more demand for ASML and other European companies, given that they already collaborate. With the addition that you can now train Europeans and develop the industry locally.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#62

Post by freemint »

DeathArrow wrote: post #48

Why can't everyone get a help from the German government to start a business? I want to grow cucumbers, so it would be nice for Germany to pay to help me start a cucumber growing business.

Joke is on you. Germany kinda does that for the unemployed https://www.arbeitsagentur.de/arbeitslosengeld/existenzgruen...

And in case you want to do something larger there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KfW which at least gives you loans.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#63

Post by dkjaudyeqooe »

jeffbee wrote: post #9
mmastrac wrote: post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

Why is the local fab specifically important? They're still going to fly the wafers to Malaysia or wherever for packaging, right? And the tools and chemicals will all be made elsewhere, won't they? It's not as simple as having a steady supply of apples from your local orchard.

Self sufficiency for products that are the lifeblood of your economy is attractive to governments.

Any of the things you describe can easily be replicated locally, fabs much less so.

Even more to the point is that it gives countries the chance to develop a high value competitive advantage that others cannot replicate.

Places like the EU would argue that they have the human capital to compete globally but they don't have the industry because of historical factors.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#64

Post by tut-urut-utut »

HWR_14 wrote: post #37
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. German citizens can invest in Intel. And, in the event of a US/German war, that plant is and will remain German, not American. I think there's an excellent case for distinguishing that from companies from China, where n…

> Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US.

Of course it matters. The profit goes in the direction of headquarters, tax is paid in the country of headquarters, and the government of the country of headquarters has much bigger influence to the company.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#65

Post by [deleted] »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

[deleted]

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#66

Post by mantas »

hunglee2 wrote: post #32

German investment again going to foreign companies, the very opposite of strategic sovereignty. The Trump era should be enough evidence that there are no friends in geo-politics, just temporary alliances of convenience.

Germany and strategic sovereignty… Looking at gas pipes, they have an alternative understanding of sovereignty.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#67

Post by Pigalowda »

hunglee2 wrote: post #32

German investment again going to foreign companies, the very opposite of strategic sovereignty. The Trump era should be enough evidence that there are no friends in geo-politics, just temporary alliances of convenience.

That was only 4 years, hardly an era.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#68

Post by mytailorisrich »

HWR_14 wrote: post #37
ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. German citizens can invest in Intel. And, in the event of a US/German war, that plant is and will remain German, not American. I think there's an excellent case for distinguishing that from companies from China, where n…

I'd say it's German economic (and more and more political) dominance over the EU and US geopolitical dominance over Germany...

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#69

Post by cute_boi »

dgellow wrote: post #42
alaricus wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want my tax money filling the coffers of an American monopoly.

Why do you care about the origin of the company?

People living on democracy have right to question when their money is being spent in enriching the country which has habit of meddling foreign policy?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#70

Post by ChuckNorris89 »

tut-urut-utut wrote: post #64
HWR_14 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. German citizens can invest in Intel. And, in the event of a US/German war, that plant is and will remain German, not American. I think there's an excellent case for distinguishing that from companies from China, where n…

> Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. Of course it matters. The profit goes in the direction of headquarters, tax is paid in the country of headquarters, and the government of the country of headquarters has much bigger influence to the company.

>tax is paid in the country of headquarters

Tax havens have something to say about that.

The French semi giant, ST, is financially incorporated in the Netherlands (STMicroelectronics N.V.), as is the French giant Airbus (Airbus Group N.V.).

There seems to be a pattern here. It's almost as if companies don't want to pay taxes, regardless if it's their home country.

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