Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab • Hacker News Board

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#31

Post by ChuckNorris89 » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

nosianu wrote: post #25

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

Right... "TSMC, Samsung want slice of America's $52b chip subsidies" -- https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/28/tsmc_samsung_chip_sub... "Intel and Micron pushing hard for subsidies from the US government" -- https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-and-micron-pushing-hard-for-su... "Subsidy Tracker: Intel" -- https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/intel "Intel boss presses Congress for manufacturing subsidies" -- https…

Sure, but that's US money propping up US companies, what's wrong with that?

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#32

Post by hunglee2 » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

German investment again going to foreign companies, the very opposite of strategic sovereignty. The Trump era should be enough evidence that there are no friends in geo-politics, just temporary alliances of convenience.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#33

Post by ChemSpider » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:47 PM UTC

jeffbee wrote: post #9

mmastrac wrote: post #2

Investing in local chip fabs is long overdue. These are incredibly important for geopolitical stability and should be distributed world-wide. We've centralized too many fabs in too few places in the search for low cost.

Why is the local fab specifically important? They're still going to fly the wafers to Malaysia or wherever for packaging, right? And the tools and chemicals will all be made elsewhere, won't they? It's not as simple as having a steady supply of apples from your local orchard.

That part is solved:

(1) German BASF is one of the manufactures for "semiconductor chemicals".

(2) More important: Getting parts from Malaysia (etc) is no issue as I don't think they plan to attack any neighboring countries in the next decade. Also, they did not start a trade boycott against Lithuania just over the name of an trade office.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#34

Post by nosianu » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #31

nosianu wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right... "TSMC, Samsung want slice of America's $52b chip subsidies" -- https://www.theregister.com/2022/03/28/tsmc_samsung_chip_sub... "Intel and Micron pushing hard for subsidies from the US government" -- https://www.pcgamer.com/intel-and-micron-pushing-hard-for-su... "Subsidy Tracker: Intel" -- https://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/parent/intel "Intel boss presses Congress for manufacturing subsidies" -- https…

Sure, but that's US money propping up US companies, what's wrong with that?

TSMC, Samsung are US companies?

And what is wrong with Europe propping up a US company? You shifted the goal post from your original comment ("When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry?"). I showed you that the US is doing exactly that, and now you jump to some other argument.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#35

Post by alaricus » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

Tade0 wrote: post #12

alaricus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel.

We are - indirectly. Intel uses EUV machines provided by ASML.

Intel was going to buy them anyway, regardless of where the fab is built.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#36

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:48 PM UTC

hunglee2 wrote: post #32

German investment again going to foreign companies, the very opposite of strategic sovereignty. The Trump era should be enough evidence that there are no friends in geo-politics, just temporary alliances of convenience.

[deleted]

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#37

Post by HWR_14 » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

Does it really matter which country is the headquarters for the corporate owner? It's still a German plant hiring Germans and subject to German laws. The rule of law exists in both Germany and the US. German citizens can invest in Intel.

And, in the event of a US/German war, that plant is and will remain German, not American.

I think there's an excellent case for distinguishing that from companies from China, where non-Chinese citizens have a great risk of confiscation of their assets by investing, Chinese companies are subject to a lot of other rules even when operating outside China, etc.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#38

Post by alaricus » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

dontbenebby wrote: post #22

alaricus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel.

> This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel. The origin of the company is irrelevant if they respect basic norms. How exactly is "intel" a monopoly when Advanced Micro Devices Inc. is also American?

> The origin of the company is irrelevant if they respect basic norms.

This is not correct. American govenment has a habit of using American companies to push foreign policy objectives.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#39

Post by alaricus » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:49 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #20

alaricus wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very bad policy. We should instead invest in local companies, not a American monopoly like Intel.

Intel is far from a monopoly in the foundry business and is frankly, the only realistic option outside of TSMC to make this happen. And the US does the same thing in terms of tax breaks for German automotive companies building manufacturing plants. Which again, makes sense, because you want to make sure you have manufacturing across continents in case Russia invades Germany and blows up all of the auto plants (for ex…

Russia is not going to invade Germany. Stop spreading nonsense.

Re: Germany paying $5.5B for Intel fab

#40

Post by mensetmanusman » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 2:50 PM UTC

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #10

Once again EU taxpayer money bankrolling US tech dominance. When will we ever learn to build up our domestic tech industry? And before the chip hipsters crawl all over my back to prove we ackshually have a powerful domestic semi industry, please name me another EU company, other than ASML (a company 90% of people here never heard of before the chip shortage), that has the same margins, dominance and ability to shape…

It’s all interconnected, Intel fabs are worthless without ASML, you can think of Intel as almost like a general contractor at this point pulling capabilities from everywhere.