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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#331

Post by samiru »

maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

> The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together.

We clearly need more regulation.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#333

Post by kube-system »

golemotron wrote: post #236
bluGill wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The constitution gives US congress the right to set standards for weights and measures, which unless you use a very strict reading says they can set charging standards. I wish they would. Tesla (and Nissan) as early movers 10 years ago can be forgiven for not adopting a standard charger, but now they need to update to the standard. (IIRC both are planning on it)

Reading charging standards as "weights and measures" is on par with classifying bumblebees as fish. Not only aren't these strict readings, they aren't even sensible.

Standardization of metering devices used in commerce is directly in the purview of Weights and Measures regulation.

For example, NIST Weights and Measures division regulates the nozzle on the dispenser used for gasoline in the US.

> Each retail dispensing device from which fuel products are sold shall be equipped with a nozzle spout having a diameter that conforms with the latest version of SAE J285, “Dispenser Nozzle Spouts for Liquid Fuel Intended for Use with Spark-Ignition and Compression Ignition Engines.”

https://www.nist.gov/system/files/documents/2019/12/06/00-20...

A metering devices that dispenses electrical power is no different. https://www.nist.gov/pml/weights-and-measures/legal-metrolog...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#334

Post by mmastrac »

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #219
ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

I'm not sure they are clear what they are solving. The statement says: "European consumers were frustrated long with multiple chargers piling up with every new device" This was solved by companies no longer providing chargers with new devices. When you buy a new phone, you use your existing charger, only buying a new one when you actually need it. If you buy a new iPhone, you get a cable that plugs into a USB-C charg…

> I'll spend the next 20 years realising I have the wrong white phone charging cable with me

> I still won't trust random USB-C cables

> I still won't trust random USB-C chargers

My answer to all three of these is the same: Why? My phone charges with every crappy USB cable and charger. Heck, my laptop will trickle charge [!] off a crappy cable on a crappy airline USB-C port.

There's one place where I'm very careful about USB-C: keeping the specific USB-C cables with my laptop with the chargers themselves, just in case I need the Thunderbolt capability. The TB monitor I bought has a specific cable that stays attached to it.

From looking on AliExpress the last few weeks, TB 100W cables appear to be getting commoditized. It's likely this worry I have about keeping laptop C cables straight won't be a big issue for much longer.

[!] Amusingly, my laptop won't actually charge off the _standard_ A/C plugs on most airplanes because the 100W charger blows a soft fuse that requires unplugging and replugging the A/C adapter!

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#335

Post by seanmcdirmid »

eddieroger wrote: post #321
micv wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Some Lightning devices use both sides to get USB3 speeds. I really have no idea why Apple have left other devices at USB2 performance. It doesn't make an awful lot of sense to me.

Because what's their incentive to do better? Most people only use the port for charging, which has no data speed, and the number of people who sync via wire is lower than ever and declining. USB2 was good enough for a long time, and it's not like it changed.

I expect Apple to do away with the lightning port eventually and just ship MagSafe (the phone kind) chargers with their phones for a completely wireless phone with no holes at all. We aren’t there yet (many people still like wired headphone solutions vs Bluetooth), but maybe in 2-3 years?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#336

Post by qwerty456127 »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation?

The EU has no problem with updating to improved standards. First there was USB-Mini-B, then USB-Micro-B, now USB-C. I would expect some different connector to replace it in a about a decade and 100% wireless in two decades roughly.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#337

Post by mrtksn »

marssaxman wrote: post #325
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

> When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Most of us are not billionaires.

You don't need to be. "We can't do anything about anything because the system is run by the billionaires and unless you are one, you have no power" narrative is not only false but also harmful.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#338

Post by thefz »

maccard wrote: post #7

The problem with USB-C is that you can't just pick up a device cable and power brick and expect them to work together. As an example, my Apple 96W USB-C charger doesn't charge my nintendo switch. The cable that came with my phone doesn't charge said fully Mac when used with the 96w charger. There is no indication of incompatibility between these devices until you realise they don't work. This is going back to the dc…

I've always found that charge works, sometimes it's not as fast as it can go, but it works.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#339

Post by mmastrac »

konschubert wrote: post #332

Is this really what we as a society should spend our focus on? What percentage of landfills are phone chargers? 0.01% maybe?

Don't forget random wall warts, random laptop power supplies, etc. All of these random DC power standards have been brutal for creating e-waste. I try to keep my power supplies organized and I have a few boxes full of them with various voltages, currents, etc.

The forcing function of laptops and other hardware needing to work off the common USB-C PD levels will drastically improve the situation. GaN tech is getting cheaper all the time, and the PD chips required to make all of this tech work are super cheap.

Eventually I hope we end up with USB-C-at-the-wall alongside power ports as a standard.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#340

Post by pixl97 »

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #188
Hamcha wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new thing. Car design has been dictated by regulations for decades and while I'm sure it has definitely stopped some novel designs from getting out there, I think we can be mostly thankful that we don't live in a sea of heterogeneous (let alone hazardous) designs. Cars can still look cool, but not to the point of being a detriment. USB-C is a pretty lax standard (for good and bad) and at the end of the day…

> Cars can still look cool compare cars from 40s-70s to what came after, its a different world you can argue it was worth it, but you can’t argue cars didn’t get homogeneous and boring in the process

Being that my modern car drives nearly 10 thousand miles before each oil change, gets at least 4x the gas mileage, easily drives over 200k miles before major maintenance, and won't turn me into hamburger if I get in a crash, I will argue its well worth it.
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