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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#281

Post by modo_mario »

samatman wrote: post #239
yummybear wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They will "periodically" check if there are better standards. The USB-C will only be fully introduced by 2027. I think it's probable that at least as soon as they're fully introduced we need a new standard.

Quoted post unavailable.

Are standardised wall sockets planned economy? Charging ports for cars? This has been a push for more than a decade now and the reason everyone aside from apple converges because of the brussels effect. From my perspective it has been great.

The alternative isn't just plain competitive designs. It's also anticompetitive practices.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#282

Post by lights0123 »

agilob wrote: post #210

USB-C is still copyrighted so it's really just forcing customers to pay for proprietary connectors? This also bans cheap phones like these https://www.androidpolice.com/nokias-newest-android-go-phone...

What do you mean? USB-C is covered by the same trademark licensing scheme (that isn't technically needed if you don't use the USB logo and use your chip's default vendor ID) as USB-A is, a $6000 one-time + $5000/year payment to USB-IF.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#283

Post by amluto »

ericmay wrote: post #255
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

> EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. In the short term, yes. In the long term however competition between these different standards will cause consolidation and overall technology improvement. The next step will be regulating wireless charging so that all devices have to use/do the same thing, rinse-wash-repeat. > Europeans don't trust that…

> In the long term however competition between these different standards will cause consolidation and overall technology improvement.

If you think that’s a superior solution, then the regulation should actually support it: require that all EV charging connectors have a free published specification, disallow patents on them, and require that interoperability be permitted without cost or other penalty. (e.g. anyone should be able to implement both ends of the Tesla supercharging protocol such that Tesla’s chargers would charge a competing car at the same prices that they charge Tesla’s; similarly, a competing charger should be able to charge a Tesla.)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#284

Post by [deleted] »

mrtksn wrote: post #233
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

[deleted]

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#285

Post by Leo_Verto »

thinkindie wrote: post #134

What I don't understand from Apple - they have already made the move to USB-C with laptops (ditching the Magsafe - that was way more practical than the USB-C connector), why resisting this much for the iPhone/iPad/etc? I understand that they have additional revenue streams by licensing lighting to accessories manufactures, but still...

I like the theory that Apple is trying to keep Lightning on their phones until they can make an entirely wireless iPhone happen, but the failure of AirPower [1] was likely a factor in delaying this transition further than planned.

[1]: https://www.macrumors.com/2019/03/29/apple-officially-cancel...

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#286

Post by malfist »

bin_bash wrote: post #246
malfist wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is tesla's connector nicer?

It’s a lot smaller, locks into the car while charging, and doesn’t have an extra flap you have to open when using DC fast charging.

Do those small improvement justify fragmentation of standards?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#287

Post by theplumber »

samatman wrote: post #269
mrtksn wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible. When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions. Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well…

I'm not a citizen of the EU, so your various centrally-planned interventions in the world economy affect me without any possibility of representation. It leaves me hoping your economy becomes much smaller so Asia can start ignoring it. Or reform I guess, the vote is yours, not mine.

Imagine different gasoline plugs...that would be stupid, isnt't it? Or different fuel formula for different car models or different AC sockets in the same house...

Also I'm not sure why you hold Asia so dear. You may soon get some centrally planned standards from China in the EV market and not only(i.e online services such tiktok)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#288

Post by wfhordie »

mrtksn wrote: post #209
jeroenhd wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the USA all modern electric cars also use the normal standard, except for Tesla. There were a few early offshoots and Tesla had good reason to come up with their own connector initially (no other plug could transfer that much power!) but these days everything has been pretty much consolidated. For charging your car at Tesla chargers that haven't been upgraded to the standard yet there are adaptors available from T…

There's this thing called Brussels effect where manufacturers pick to default to EU requirements instead of having different supply chains unless they absolutely have to. EU don't like the idea of manufacturers locking down their users through different standards. EU is a densely populated place with limited natural resources and free space, therefore cables piling up or 10 different types of charging stations are pr…

> cannot be made interoperable without a substantial modifications is a no-no.

This sentence seems to imply that one cannot charge their non-Tesla car with the Tesla charging network without substantial modifications.

What do you mean by substantial modification? It is already possible for non-Tesla cars, in the United States, to charge at Tesla destination chargers with an adapter: https://qccharge.com/collections/jdapter-stub™-tesla-station...

There isn’t anything particular magic about Tesla Superchargers, either. A simple adapter+some API for the app will open it right up.

I’m not against standardization, btw.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#289

Post by lynguist »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

Look, we have the headphone jack (6.35mm) stemming from 1877, and its miniature form (3.5mm) from 1960.

It’s ok to let USB-C live for another 60-100 years.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#290

Post by amluto »

bin_bash wrote: post #246
malfist wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is tesla's connector nicer?

It’s a lot smaller, locks into the car while charging, and doesn’t have an extra flap you have to open when using DC fast charging.

The locking feature is misguided. There should absolutely be a mechanical interlock to prevent unplugging under load. But no key should be required to unplug a home charger, and no key should be needed to plug in a charger once the charge port is open. As I see it, the only security goals should be:

1. At a public charger, one should have to authenticate to _either_ the car or the charger to interrupt an active charging session.

2. When using a portable charger of the sort that is owned by the car’s owner, one should not be able to unplug the charger and thus steal it if one cannot authenticate to the car.

And that’s it. You should be able to unplug someone else from a public charger that can reach multiple parking spaces once it finishes charging.

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