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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#241

Post by dankboys »

thinkindie wrote: post #134

What I don't understand from Apple - they have already made the move to USB-C with laptops (ditching the Magsafe - that was way more practical than the USB-C connector), why resisting this much for the iPhone/iPad/etc? I understand that they have additional revenue streams by licensing lighting to accessories manufactures, but still...

Apple's argument behind keeping the lightning connector is that it offers a superior standard of waterproofing than the USB-C can provide. The iPad and MacBook, to my knowledge, don't make any claims about being waterproof.

(Not to say anything about the veracity of the waterproof argument, just that they make it)

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#242

Post by davoneus »

criddell wrote: post #183
RandomWorker wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the whole point of USB —- it’s in the name Universal Serial Bus. We have to talk about the ewaste issue, which is massive score on the earth. The particular village in China where all our waste get recycled is just a horrible scene. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu This is a small step, but standardization is a great thing towards less waste.

USB is universal, but there are so many variations that it's not very clear. Does the EU mandate say which USB-C modes and variations have to be supported?

Too many get caught up in the "USB-C" connector, and forget about the modes and power delivery. That said, AFAICT the May 2022 revision states (pg 6):

"the devices should incorporate the USB Power Delivery (USB PD) standard (as described in the European standard EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021) and ensure that any additional charging protocols allow for full USB PD functionality (new annex Ia, part I)."

Then the referenced: "EN IEC 62680-1-2:2021" standard specifies

"To facilitate optimum charging, the specification defines two mechanisms a USB Charger can advertise for the Device to use: 1. A list of fixed voltages each with a maximum current. 2. A list of programmable voltage ranges each with a maximum current (PPS). The Device requests a voltage (in 20 mV increments) that is within the advertised range and a maximum current."

But those regs get over my head quickly, so someone else may have better luck interpreting them.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#244

Post by mattmoose21 »

samatman wrote: post #211
mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

Having a car manufacturer dictate where you plug in is bad, actually.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#245

Post by gumby »

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation?

Previously the EU had a (non-compulsory) rule on micro A as the charging standard: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_external_power_supply

Plus they leave the door open for a wireless alternative.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#246

Post by bin_bash »

malfist wrote: post #221
samatman wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

How is tesla's connector nicer?

It’s a lot smaller, locks into the car while charging, and doesn’t have an extra flap you have to open when using DC fast charging.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#247

Post by badwolf »

rootusrootus wrote: post #206
Majromax wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I understand that they have additional revenue streams by licensing lighting to accessories manufactures, but still... Bingo. It's not the charging, it's the port itself. But the fee and lock-in also apply to data-using accessories. Wired iPhone headphones aren't compatible with other phones, for example, and if you've purchased (e.g.) an expensive FLIR phone-mounted thermal camera, then you're less likely to jump…

I don't think it's fees. Relative to what they earn directly from customers, fees are a pittance. I figure they have exactly two reasons, both plausible, to be reluctant to switch the phone over to USB-C. The first is size -- lightning is thinner than USB. But other phones have USB-C, so this is probably not that big a hassle. The second is their customers. For every customer that wants USB-C on their new phone, a do…

2 is a big point. This is supposedly about e-waste, but will force everyone to trash all their old cables and accessories even faster now.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#248

Post by agloeregrets »

jonwinstanley wrote: post #137
ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

Exactly. So silly. Plus Apple Watches have always been only charged via conductive, so it’s likely phones could have gone that way too within a short space of time if the lack of a data cable was deemed acceptable.

I would highly prefer the watch didn't charge that way; it takes FOREVER.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#249

Post by zaarn »

samatman wrote: post #229
zaarn wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forget that everything now being USB or Lightning is in part due to the EU attempting to harmonize the market on USB before today. All the larger market leaders signed an agreement to move to USB, which Apple understood as "USB at the charger" apparently. But the EU pushing this for the past decades is responsible for almost everything being interoperable.

Quoted post unavailable.

That would be believable except Apple has been fighting the EU for years now over not implementing USB at all. Sure the charger has USB, but the phones they've release the last decade don't have a USB port themselves. Even when the industry leaders signed their agreements, Apple had to be the butt. I don't see how them shipping USB chargers with proprietary adapters at some point helps their case here. Apple didn't standardize anything at all here.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#250

Post by danielfoster »

ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

This is absolutely correct. I think the EU could have used its time and money focusing on more important problems.

The new legislation is the type of feel-good lawmaking that sounds good on paper but has no real impact on society.

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