EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices • Hacker News Board

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#231

Post by rootusrootus » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:23 PM UTC

marticode wrote: post #112

bluescrn wrote: post #95

So will USB-D be announced before then?

USB-C is highly extensible (some would say way too much), I doubt we will need to make a connector that is physically incompatible anytime soon (although I'm sure the standard will be upgraded for more speed/uses)

> I doubt we will need to make a connector that is physically incompatible anytime soon

Didn't USB-C already do that to itself? I suppose that depends on how narrow the definition of "physically incompatible" is. But IIRC you can't buy a perfect do-everything USB-C cable today, because some USB-C use cases are flat out incompatible with others.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#232

Post by peoplefromibiza » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:23 PM UTC

tokamak-teapot wrote: post #219

ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

I'm not sure they are clear what they are solving. The statement says: "European consumers were frustrated long with multiple chargers piling up with every new device" This was solved by companies no longer providing chargers with new devices. When you buy a new phone, you use your existing charger, only buying a new one when you actually need it. If you buy a new iPhone, you get a cable that plugs into a USB-C charg…

> If USB-C is mandated on the phone end:

ever heard of adaptors?

apple loves them and loves charging 29 dollars for them!

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#233

Post by mrtksn » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #211

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

EU is a densely populated place where having multiple charging networks of incomparable plugs will be horrible.

When you are not happy with decisions the governments make, it usually means that you should be involved in the process of making the decisions.

Europeans don't trust that the industry will always come up with the best solutions for the user, Americans usually don't trust the government doing something well unless it's the military. Let's agree to disagree.

I like that the car plugs are the same everywhere in EU and want it to stay that way and enjoy the Tesla plugs on a trip to USA.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#234

Post by agloeregrets » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #211

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

On the other hand, companies building wholly proprietary infrastructure is just pure e-waste on the back of the citizens of those countries that ALSO limits innovation.

Imagine a world where Ford cars use a different gas nozzle from a GM product in the US. The average person would have to pick and choose stations and if one were to go out of business, the lesser standard would encounter mass disposal and retrofit, all on the backs of consumers. The intent with these products is generally not innovation...it is lock in and licensing fees. The EU law in case here has a committee that reviews the standard yearly and accepts proposals.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#235

Post by aiisjustanif » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:24 PM UTC

samatman wrote: post #211

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

> Will EU block innovation? It already has. Tesla's connector is nicer (you can call that subjective but it isn't) and the supercharging network in the US is deploying the clunky standard sort of connector as well. If EU legislation were universal, that would preclude any future where the superior connector is licensed and takes over from the crappy designed-by-committee alternative, because Tesla would be forced to…

Imagine if we had this outlook towards plugs in houses in the US. Standardization is underrated.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#236

Post by golemotron » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #159

mrtksn wrote: post #123

By the way, that's also how Tesla and all other cars have the same electric plug in EU(not the USB mandate but the car plug standardisation mandate). Of course, the first thing that comes to mind is what happens if better solutions are found. Will EU block innovation? That question is addressed in the Q&A: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/QANDA_... In essence, they seem to believe that wired char…

The constitution gives US congress the right to set standards for weights and measures, which unless you use a very strict reading says they can set charging standards. I wish they would. Tesla (and Nissan) as early movers 10 years ago can be forgiven for not adopting a standard charger, but now they need to update to the standard. (IIRC both are planning on it)

Reading charging standards as "weights and measures" is on par with classifying bumblebees as fish.

Not only aren't these strict readings, they aren't even sensible.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#237

Post by horsawlarway » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

peeters wrote: post #202

horsawlarway wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This always gets bought up, and it's always wrong. > I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. They didn't write the law as "you must use USB-C" They wrote the law as "The industry experts need to pick A standard for charging, and all manufacturers should respect that choice" They are welcome to change it…

> They are welcome to change it going forward, they just have to agree and consolidate. That's not how innovation works. What motivation would they have to change it if all your competitors will change it step? This only hurts consumers.

I think this is a pretty bad take.

Not all that many companies are doing work for cable standards to begin with, and personally - as a consumer - I very much welcome the standardization on usb-c.

The companies that are doing work on communication standards aren't normally selling the kind of devices covered here to consumers. It's more business to business and military applications. Further, charging in particular is a different beast than communication in general - you're not doing anything other than sending current down the line to fill a battery. there's only so many ways to do that, and I think it makes sense to consolidate them.

Finally - the requirement only states that the device must include a usb-c port for charging. It makes no limitations on manufacturers including additional ports. So even if a direct to consumer device wanted to include a new port - they absolutely could, they just still have to allow filling the battery from usb-c.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#238

Post by cowtools » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

mikkergp wrote: post #199

RandomWorker wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That was the whole point of USB —- it’s in the name Universal Serial Bus. We have to talk about the ewaste issue, which is massive score on the earth. The particular village in China where all our waste get recycled is just a horrible scene. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_waste_in_Guiyu This is a small step, but standardization is a great thing towards less waste.

Won’t this increase waste as lightning is deprecated?

temporarily

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#239

Post by samatman » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:25 PM UTC

yummybear wrote: post #160

ubermonkey wrote: post #130

It's just really not clear to me that regulators need to be mandating product design. I have no expectation, for example, that these same regulators will stay on top of this and revise it when USB-C stops being the preferred or best choice. Twenty years ago, we really DID have a snarl of competing and proprietary phone ports. It was a mess -- Blackberry chargers didn't work with Palm; most WinMo devices had their own…

They will "periodically" check if there are better standards. The USB-C will only be fully introduced by 2027. I think it's probable that at least as soon as they're fully introduced we need a new standard.

No post body was provided.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#240

Post by peoplefromibiza » Tue, Jun 07, 2022, 1:26 PM UTC

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #188

Hamcha wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a new thing. Car design has been dictated by regulations for decades and while I'm sure it has definitely stopped some novel designs from getting out there, I think we can be mostly thankful that we don't live in a sea of heterogeneous (let alone hazardous) designs. Cars can still look cool, but not to the point of being a detriment. USB-C is a pretty lax standard (for good and bad) and at the end of the day…

> Cars can still look cool compare cars from 40s-70s to what came after, its a different world you can argue it was worth it, but you can’t argue cars didn’t get homogeneous and boring in the process

> compare cars from 40s-70s to what came after, its a different world

Yeah. we understood that they not only pollute the environment and it's stupid to build cars the size of a starship, but also by 1973 the World (except the US) understood that oil is not for granted and fuel efficiency should be a thing.

Also safety while we are at it, doesn't sound so bad...