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EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

engadget.com

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Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#51

Post by kaba0 »

Nextgrid wrote: post #20
stewx wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue with the Nintendo Switch is that Nintendo designed their own faulty USB-C charging implementation rather than merely using the reference design. It's not a failure of the spec, it's a failure to adhere to the spec. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16706803

It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simp…

Do you have any reason to believe that they "screwed up" due to a spec being complex, over much more likely explanations like.. they simply didn't want to follow the spec?

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#52

Post by jjcm »

One thing I would love to see here is an end of life for this ruling. I.e. “effective as of 2024, but not enforced after 2030 without renewal”. Market saturation of the standard alone should be enough to get alignment on a single connector, following which it will require significant effort to deviate from it regardless of legislation. I’m still happy with this in the short term - very tired of having to juggle two types of charging cables. I just wish there was a bit of forward thinking involved here.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#53

Post by remus »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39
Nextgrid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simp…

>It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. People and companies can screw thing up royally regardless of spec complexity when there's no review/oversight involved. That's not a valid argument. If you want to force and check adherence to a spec you need to involve certification authorities (TÜV, SGS, UL, etc.) but then widget prices would increase dramatically. Edit: to address the child…

I think it's a reasonable point. A more complex spec is going to be harder to implement correctly.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#54

Post by glogla »

jl6 wrote: post #35

I want to like this, but I charge my iPhone with a cable that has lightning on one end and USB-C on the other, and I know from extensive direct experience that the lightning end is the better physical design. Supporting this is tantamount to believing that there will never need to be a USB-D that improves upon USB-C, and I just can’t believe that.

The previous standard was Micro-USB (that's why you still see it on dashcams, standalone GPSes, drawing tablets and other devices) and yet, USB-C came to exist.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#55

Post by plonk »

qalmakka wrote: post #2

2024? There's still plenty of time for them to remove the port altogether and go with just MagSafe/Qi. Which they control, and they still can get fees from. Trust me when I say that Apple will NEVER submit to this legislation, they will find every sort of obscure or arcane tricks to comply with it without actually doing it. It would set a precedent that legislating can change Apple's behaviour, which they clearly do…

They already use USB-C on macs and iPads. The only practical reason for Lightning to survive is existing iPhone accessories. It could have been on the way out even before this. Not sure the fight is worth picking.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#56

Post by rhn_mk1 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #39
Nextgrid wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. I understand the complexity for data, but for power I wish it was as simple as power & ground wires and that's it. Compare that with USB-A where even cheap Chinese cables from the lowest bidder usually work (work well enough at least - you might get voltage drop but it will still charge if you leave it on long enough) because the spec is so simp…

>It's still not a great spec if it's so complex that you can screw it up. People and companies can screw thing up royally regardless of spec complexity when there's no review/oversight involved. That's not a valid argument. If you want to force and check adherence to a spec you need to involve certification authorities (TÜV, SGS, UL, etc.) but then widget prices would increase dramatically. Edit: to address the child…

It is a valid argument because the more complicated the spec, the easier to mess up the implementation.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#57

Post by kalleboo »

rob_c wrote: post #24
lekevicius wrote: post #14

As a European, I'm very happy. USB-A has been with us for over 20 years. It's only disappearing because of USB-C, and USB-C seems to have room to grow. I wouldn't be surprised if it will still be the most popular connector in 2035, and not just because "legislation stops innovation". Making sure there are no weird exceptions to a very good port is reasonable and good.

Great until you have some "sales rep" in a supermarket dealing with a Karen who's device won't charge fast enough off a 10W USBC charger that fundamentally isn't the same as a 60W one.

That's not new to USB-C though, there was already a wide range of charging speeds on USB-A

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#58

Post by kalleboo »

jl6 wrote: post #35

I want to like this, but I charge my iPhone with a cable that has lightning on one end and USB-C on the other, and I know from extensive direct experience that the lightning end is the better physical design. Supporting this is tantamount to believing that there will never need to be a USB-D that improves upon USB-C, and I just can’t believe that.

If there's a better standard in the future the law can be changed, they didn't put this in the constitution.

I've never had a phone with USB-C to compare, but I've had rotten luck with Lightning. I always get that one power pin that blackens and makes the cable unreliable.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#59

Post by schleck8 »

PinguTS wrote: post #33

Everybody who is frenetically celebrating this as the end of the manufacturer-specific power brick, does simply not know that USB-C is not USB-C. There is no single USB-C. USB-C is a bunch of specifications that may can be combined or may not. USB-C is only the physical connector. USB-C PD (Power delivery) does support many different modes. There are at least 11 different modes with at least 4 of them are optional. I…

> makes it for the average consumer a nightmare.

No, it doesn't. Almost all my devices (macbook, camera, speaker, phone, headphones...) use usb c pd and I am using the same three cables interchangeably for all of them, no issues.

If Apple choses to intentionally break this compatibility it's a user hostile company.

Re: EU reaches deal to make USB-C a common charger for most electronic devices

#60

Post by freddex »

frizlab wrote: post #16
messe wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why?

Lightning is a far superior plug than usb-c (don’t tell me about data transfer, I don’t care, I care about the durability and ease of plugging of the plug itself), I have MANY lightning cables (that I will have to throw away, how is that good for e-waste?), and in a more general sense the law basically forbids evolution. I am livid that they’d do something like that instead of working on actual stuff like forbidding…

Fair enough about your existing cables, but cables would be thrown away if we enforced Lightning, as well (probably a lot more, but I have no numbers on that). I don't really get the arguments of durability and ease of plugging, both cable types seem very easy to plug. As for durability, that seems to depend on cable quality and not on the USB C standard.

As for evolution/innovation, sure, that's a real downside. Seems like a quite small price to pay though because it is just about charging. And if I understand this correctly, you can still innovate and add Super Charge 3000 to your device, it just needs to have USB C charging as well, and you need to be able to opt out of getting yet another charger with your new device.

As for working on actual stuff: They can do both - Regulating mining would be great, but this is also good.

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