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A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

nytimes.com

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Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#61

Post by sofixa »

egourlao wrote: post #18

Besides the benefits or drawbacks of the 4-day workweek on its merits, it's worth remembering that behind the headlines such as "$COUNTRY tests $SOCIAL_CHANGE", it's usually some entity in $COUNTRY on a mission rather than an organization that's representative of the opinions of its population. Same thing has been happening with Scandinavian countries too – there's always a rotating cast of Sweden, Finland and Norway…

Minor nitpick - Finland is not a part of Scandinavia, which is a cultural/historical/linguistic concept, and is generally understood to mean Denmark, Sweden, Norway. If you want to include Finland, which is quite different linguistically historically, and to a lesser extent culturally , the correct term is Nordics.

As for the main point in your comment, yes and no. In Finland for instance, the UBI pilot was an official government pilot, thus it could be turned into official policy.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#62

Post by onion2k »

codelord wrote: post #23

I wonder what the perspective of other people who run businesses or manage teams are on this subject? I have managed teams at top tech companies in bay area in the past (although switched back to an engineering position recently). Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly. Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more. When w…

Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more.

I think the fact that you put "a good engineer" in your post undermines the point you're making.

People taking too long to complete simple tasks is a problem, but only where those tasks don't really require any significant ability to complete. Something simple and low risk should be completed quickly by anyone, even a terrible engineer.

Good engineers don't go quickly though. Where something is complex or high risk they should take their time and go slowly. Spending more than a day just considering the task in full is fine. Honestly, for the majority of tasks beyond anything trivial, I'd be very wary of any dev who claimed to be able to go quickly.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#63

Post by beejiu »

sn0w_crash wrote: post #2

If you’re working 20% less than your competitor, you will fall behind. There’s no amount of mental gymnastics one can do to reconcile that fact. And if true, then the market should resolve this.

Businesses are also competing in the talent market.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#64

Post by laszlojamf »

codelord wrote: post #23

I wonder what the perspective of other people who run businesses or manage teams are on this subject? I have managed teams at top tech companies in bay area in the past (although switched back to an engineering position recently). Regardless of the company, I have always wondered why everyone around me is working so slowly. Things that a good engineer should be able to do in a day gets done in a month or more. When w…

This applies to a surprising amount of things: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pareto_principle

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#65

Post by xyzzyz »

sofixa wrote: post #60
xyzzyz wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s also why the “remote learning” during Covid was such an infuriating joke: the main purpose of schooling (which is daycare) was destroyed, and the learning was marginal at best. This is all while the elementary school children were at no risk from the disease, and while plenty of other “essential workers” were busy working their jobs in person. What a joke.

> This is all while the elementary school children were at no risk from the disease First, that's untrue: https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/covid-19/ Of course it's not even close to the death rate in adults, especially older ones, thankfully, but it isn't "no risk". Second, the main reason for school closures was that the kids, even if there's very little risk for them, can transmit the disease to family…

No post body was provided.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#66

Post by blocked_again »

egourlao wrote: post #18

Besides the benefits or drawbacks of the 4-day workweek on its merits, it's worth remembering that behind the headlines such as "$COUNTRY tests $SOCIAL_CHANGE", it's usually some entity in $COUNTRY on a mission rather than an organization that's representative of the opinions of its population. Same thing has been happening with Scandinavian countries too – there's always a rotating cast of Sweden, Finland and Norway…

Have you heard of minority rule?

https://atlasgeographica.com/the-minority-rule-explained/

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#67

Post by Dylan16807 »

sn0w_crash wrote: post #2

If you’re working 20% less than your competitor, you will fall behind. There’s no amount of mental gymnastics one can do to reconcile that fact. And if true, then the market should resolve this.

Your logic is much too simple, or we'd be working 7 days a week. Figure out how to answer that quandary before talking about 4 vs. 5.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#68

Post by elcomet »

xyzzyz wrote: post #65
sofixa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all while the elementary school children were at no risk from the disease First, that's untrue: https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/covid-19/ Of course it's not even close to the death rate in adults, especially older ones, thankfully, but it isn't "no risk". Second, the main reason for school closures was that the kids, even if there's very little risk for them, can transmit the disease to family…

Quoted post unavailable.

But that's not for you to decide. We live all together, and someone getting sick from an infectious disease concerns us all.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#69

Post by Dylan16807 »

xyzzyz wrote: post #65
sofixa wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is all while the elementary school children were at no risk from the disease First, that's untrue: https://data.unicef.org/topic/child-survival/covid-19/ Of course it's not even close to the death rate in adults, especially older ones, thankfully, but it isn't "no risk". Second, the main reason for school closures was that the kids, even if there's very little risk for them, can transmit the disease to family…

Quoted post unavailable.

> the grocery store clerks had more integrity and sense of duty

The grocery store clerks shouldn't have been risking themselves without hazard pay either.

Making someone too desperate to quit isn't duty, and calling people essential without treating them better is insulting.

Re: A six-month program in Britain will assess the effects of a shorter workweek

#70

Post by kule »

jen729w wrote: post #3

Some time last year I stopped working Mondays. I’m a contractor and I know my boss well, so I just said that I didn’t want to work Mondays any more. The difference is remarkable. You go from spending three quarters of your days at work to just over half. The weekend is actually relaxing. You can do chores, relax, and really unwind before the work week starts again. We use Mondays to work on our side projects. You can…

I see a lot of people go for Monday or Friday when going down to 4 days a week. There's definitely some advantages to that, however as an alternative suggestion I prefer Wednesdays off.

I find even in the best jobs, there's a general level of stress that builds up at work over consecutive days. There's a great feeling being a bit stressed on Tuesday and thinking "ah it's ok I've got tomorrow off". It's like that "Friday Feeling" twice a week.

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