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Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

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Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#101

Post by sorokod »

belfalas wrote: post #97
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

> After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Never forget that history is written by the victors. The Mongol Empire was replaced by the Russian Empire.

In China?

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#105

Post by setr »

brnaftr361 wrote: post #82
Aspos wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Europeans in the Americas and Mongols in Eurasia did what was rational: both had significant, incomparable advantage in military technology and both used it for their advantage according to the standards of their time.

I believe the accepted narrative insofar as the New World is concerned is that it was largely disease that eliminated the population. There's a theory that is posited in Charles Mann's book 1492 which indicates a probable explanation for extremely high mortality rates due to susceptibility to the pathogens the Europeans introduced. The gist: natives of the New World had immune systems conditioned and selected for par…

The best explanation I’m aware of for the disproportionate death rates by Europeans vs Native Americans by disease is mainly population density of European cities was dramatically higher, leading to a lot of diseases that would permanently spread throughout the population until the combination of evolution and immune systems brought it to a symbiotic, fairly neutral relationship.

Which didn’t remain so neutral when applied to fresh populations.

Native Americans simply weren’t playing host to as many diseases, and persisting virulent ones

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#106

Post by bakuninsbart »

KoftaBob wrote: post #35
mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if we can call them the most evil. There are plenty of contenders, even if the death rates don't match up. If we go purely by deathrates then we should pick communist china or the soviet union. If we go by barbarity the mongol empire, the timurids, and the japanese empire (talking the one from ww2) are all good contenders. Imperial japan was so bad that the nazi ambassador to china in nanking did his bes…

> If we go by barbarity the mongol empire, the timurids, and the japanese empire (talking the one from ww2) are all good contenders. It's interesting that 2/3 are central asian steppe empires/civilizations. What is it with that area and producing psychopathic tribes, not to mention being the origin point of several plagues.

There might be some form of selection bias by the OP? Neither the colonization of the Americas by various European "tribes", nor the brutal colonial empires in Africa in the 19th century seem to make the cut, and for some reason not even Nazi Germany is listed.

When it comes to the number of genocides, it is probably difficult to beat out the British, but they were always quite jolly about it, so I guess it wasn't that bad.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#108

Post by ramblerman »

Glyptodon wrote: post #84
1123581321 wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please substitute the term you typically use for practitioners of genocide.

I don't think pre-modern conflicts can be framed under the modern concept of genocide very well. In any case the Mongols did not set out to obliterate specific groups because of ethnicity, race, religion, etc., per se. Maybe wanting tribute or territory is a stupid reason to obliterate a city, but it's not motivated by ethnic or racial animus. Similarly, revenge on an empire for the death of ambassadors that leads to…

> It was all very practical, not based on hate

Lol, this seems a bit naive. It's hard to rape and pillage people you like.

Do you think we've lost the plot a little bit when you have to do these mental gymnastics to distinguish between murdering an entire nation out of some "approved" reason, vs say out of ethnic reasons.

Surely the real crime is murdering a nation.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#110

Post by xbmcuser »

fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

The worst Empire in that case is USA with how they obliterated the North American populations and wiped out many tribes.
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