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Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

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Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#21

Post by rowanG077 »

nixlim wrote: post #6
cato_the_elder wrote: post #2

This part sounds very similar to the traditional role of women, and it is quite dishonest to frame it as "Running Genghis Khan’s Empire": > Chinggis Khan’s senior wife, Börte, is responsible for a camp. She’s responsible for their home, the yurt or ger that they live in. She’s responsible for the kids. If merchants come through, she’s going to talk to them about economic activity. She is going to oversee or perform t…

The thing to remember is that a "camp" comprised thousands of people, livestock and other moving parts. She was essentially project and logistics manager of a massive project, with no automation tools or modern mechanical equipment. The logistics of it would have been mind boggling. Not sure what you mean by "traditional role of women", as that would differ between cultures, but her job would be no mean feat, in my o…

Traditional role doesn't mean the role is not hard to fullfil.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#22

Post by Victerius »

friedman23 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

There's no point in grinding one's teeth and squeezing one's fist at an ancient construct that predates your birth by nearly a millenium. At some point you'll want to let the steam out of your ears, sit down, and hit the books. And the same will be true of the Third Reich in a couple centuries, when anyone even remotely associated to anyone else even remotely associated with the atrocities committed by Germany will be long since dead. And the 1933-1945 period in Germany will become more of a subject of historical curiosity than a source of outrage.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#23

Post by wizwit999 »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #17
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

I don't know if we can call them the most evil. There are plenty of contenders, even if the death rates don't match up. If we go purely by deathrates then we should pick communist china or the soviet union. If we go by barbarity the mongol empire, the timurids, and the japanese empire (talking the one from ww2) are all good contenders. Imperial japan was so bad that the nazi ambassador to china in nanking did his bes…

I mean Mongols depopulated entire large cities. E.g. the entire population of Merv, which was one of the world's largest cities at the time, was killed.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#24

Post by thevardanian »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #10
nixlim wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing to remember is that a "camp" comprised thousands of people, livestock and other moving parts. She was essentially project and logistics manager of a massive project, with no automation tools or modern mechanical equipment. The logistics of it would have been mind boggling. Not sure what you mean by "traditional role of women", as that would differ between cultures, but her job would be no mean feat, in my o…

which is a fair point, but its a far cry from the claim of running the empire. The wives of many leaders tend to be important politically and have a hand in the nation's affairs, but its a large leap to claim that means they ran it. She was important absolutely, but the article was just using too much hyperbole. also the army stat was complete bs, we know they were not in need of resorting to female soldiers due to t…

Household economics were often controlled by women, as well as structuring/securing social alliances or solidify social status. So it isn't hyperbole, so much as this aspect is entirely lost with more "modern" ideas about gender roles, rather the lack thereof.

In older societies it was common to view women as playing a central role in bringing great ruin or great fortune to men, and by extension "their" empires, for this very reason.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#25

Post by samatman »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #17
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

I don't know if we can call them the most evil. There are plenty of contenders, even if the death rates don't match up. If we go purely by deathrates then we should pick communist china or the soviet union. If we go by barbarity the mongol empire, the timurids, and the japanese empire (talking the one from ww2) are all good contenders. Imperial japan was so bad that the nazi ambassador to china in nanking did his bes…

Raw death toll and percentage of total world population slaughtered seem like the two most objective measures. The Horde win the dubious blue ribbon for the latter.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#26

Post by s1artibartfast »

evv555 wrote: post #18
s1artibartfast wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who looks at the Mongol empire fondly?

Whoever wrote this article? Obviously, are you asking a rhetorical question?

Not an rhetorical question at all.

I didn't see any wholistic judgment of the Mongol empire in the article.

The Mongols did tons of amazing, fascinating, and great things. They also did terrible and atrocious things.

The later should not preclude curiosity and appreciation of the former.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#27

Post by s1artibartfast »

mrcheesebreeze wrote: post #20
s1artibartfast wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who looks at the Mongol empire fondly?

some mongol people to this day. People tend to ignore their ancestor's warcrimes. Even if they admit they were evil they can't bring themselves to hate them. This applies to most old empires, many people can't bring themselves to hate the entire empire despite their barbarity.

People should absolutely cultivate a balanced and accurate understanding of the past. I don't think anyone should cultivate hate.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#28

Post by [deleted] »

evv555 wrote: post #19
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

Looking forward to the feel-good girl power articles about Nazi Germany.

[deleted]

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#29

Post by s1artibartfast »

evv555 wrote: post #19
fasteddie31003 wrote: post #13

IMO we should not look at Genghis Kahn's Empire fondly. After listening to Hardcore History's Wrath of the Khans, I think they have been the most evil group humanity has produced so far. Time seems to heal all wounds but Genghis Khan sure seemed to have made a lot of wounds.

Looking forward to the feel-good girl power articles about Nazi Germany.

Sounds interesting, I would read that.

There is a lot of fascinating literature about differences in gender roles between western and eastern Germany behind the iron curtain.

Re: Women Who Ran Genghis Khan’s Empire

#30

Post by avgcorrection »

friedman23 wrote: post #5

[flagged]

People might roll their eyes at Godwin’s Law but this poster has a point.

Here’s how these headlines work:

“The men who ran Genghis Khan’s empire”

This title either evokes the air of scholarly history or makes you think about the brutality of large Medieval empires.

“Women who ran Genghis Khan’s empire”

This title makes you think (or is supposed to make you think), oh, I guess the Mongolians were kind of progressive. Good on you, Mongolians.

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