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Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

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Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#121

Post by skeptical »

kalleboo wrote: post #59

How many PC users are still using XP, a 10 year old OS? If the version of the OS you have still works, it still works. The real issue here is security updates. Google need a way to update core OS component that aren't affected by the manufacturer's UI skinning.

Software compatibility is the key difference in here. To this day, virtually every application built for windows will run on windows xp. Does the same applies to android? I don't think it does. Many android apps require newer versions of android. I believe phone manufactures want to push compatibility lifetime so they can sell more devices.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#122

Post by ajross »

masklinn wrote: post #76

The graph is debatable for the 3G: its last update was 4.2.1 released 28 months into the phone's lifecycle, but it did not get iOS 4.3 release in March 2011. Talking about "major version" sounds like a lie/cop-out in that case, since iOS receives pretty major updates in "minor" versions (4.3 included personal hotspots, ASLR, a JITed javascript engine, settings rearrangements and reworks, the ability to cancel an appl…

Also note that the graph goes out only three years, conveniently skipping the fact that the original and 3G will never get iOS 5. You'd think Apple had a perfect record, when in fact there's a bunch of yellow on their graph too.

That chart is terribly cooked. It leaves out important devices like the Nexus S which had good support, and includes a ton of clunkers in lieu of the most popular phones (e.g. no Galaxy S variants) which tended to fare a little better.

That said, the point the post is making is valid and important. But the graphic is sensationalized junk. It's a platform flame masquerading as product research.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#123

Post by delackner »

masklinn wrote: post #76

The graph is debatable for the 3G: its last update was 4.2.1 released 28 months into the phone's lifecycle, but it did not get iOS 4.3 release in March 2011. Talking about "major version" sounds like a lie/cop-out in that case, since iOS receives pretty major updates in "minor" versions (4.3 included personal hotspots, ASLR, a JITed javascript engine, settings rearrangements and reworks, the ability to cancel an appl…

From a developer standpoint, the Major version releases are far more important. All I have to choose is "am I going to support 3.1.x devices, or am I going to limit myself to 4.x devices". Even better, now that iOS5 has arrived with (very pleasantly smooth) support for the 3GS, the choice is "do I support 3.x or 5.x" since the last years of devices ALL support the APIs in the most recent OS. That is huge.

Just yesterday I realized that a long-standing bug is fixed by iOS5, and that since nearly all of our customers will be running 3GS or newer hardware, I can depend on that fix with confidence when we release our next version soon.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#124

Post by billjings »

mquander wrote: post #99
billjings wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I were Motorola or Samsung, though, there's no way I'd do that. Without differentiation, you're selling a commodity product. If you're selling a commodity, there are no margins. I agree with you that it would be better for the Android ecosystem if they would, though.

If you or anyone can provide actual evidence that manufacturer software increases sales or gets consumers to tolerate higher margins, I'm all ears. But short of that, I don't believe it. I've never met someone who said they preferred a phone because of the bundled software. I have observed two groups of people: - Most people aren't conscious of bundled software or couldn't care less about it. - A minority actively di…

I don't have numbers, but I've definitely met folks who have said, "Samsung has a better interface than HTC", or the like.

The bundled software I'll grant is not really about differentiation - it's still a way to increase margins, though, by selling the right to bundle software on the phone or promoting your own services.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#125

Post by vetinari »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #100
Fingel wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue its just as easy/easier to "crossgrade the OS" (whatever that means) on an android phone as a PC. Step 1: get a .zip from http://www.cyanogenmod.com/ Step 2: Place it on your SD card. Step 3: Reboot phone, hold down the power button, select "install update". Now you have an android device with the latest software, no bloatware, and a host of other awesome features.

The problem is that you're relying on a third party which does it in their free time. I am not sure they're up to the level of the Linux kernel or Firefox yet. And installing stuff on a PC is ingrained into people's psyche, if they can't do it themselves, they get some other folks to do it for them. Upgrading phones? Not so much. My friend never updated her iPhone 4 once. She once used iTunes to transfer songs to it…

That's why this entire topic is a tempest in the teapot. Only us geeks and computer enthusiasts care about firmware updates. In real life, I know many people who are satisfied with their Android 1.6, 2.1 and iOS 3.x.

These people, even if they know that upgrade is available won't bother. The existing device with it's current firmware works for them, so why change it.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#126

Post by vetinari »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #112
technoslut wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And don't forget the mandatory "crapware" that carriers pre-install. ICS supposedly solves this problem but one has to wonder how many low-end Android phones will be sold in the next year (or even two?) that won't support ICS since the N1 won't be getting it.

How does it solve the issue? By making the UI better? But won't OEMs want to "differentiate" by installing their own bloated flashy custom UI? Not to mention the uninstallable adware and junkware installed and always running in the background. Does ICS solve this?

Yes, ICS solves that.

Even if the apk is installed in system partition (that means you can't uninstall it), you can mark it hidden and the system will never take it into account at startup, intent broadcast or in other situations. It is as good as removed (except that it physically can't be removed, because you may want to restore the phone to factory settings).

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#127

Post by frou_dh »

watmough wrote: post #103
masklinn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can say that I had a great life for this phone (3.5 years and counting) and that I'm not mad Apple decided to stop supporting it. I think ajanuary is talking about the fact that the 3G was still for sale until right before the iPhone 4 was released (see black rectangle). So people who bought a 3G right before the 4 was released (not necessarily a smart move) got about 10 months of support (support essentially end…

I speak from experience when I say, putting iOS 4 on the 3G was just a terrible idea. The 3G should have stayed with the 2G in being restricted to iOS 3.1.3, which whilst no speed demon, at least runs reasonably well, even now. The 3GS is the lowest hardware that should have been given iOS 4.

I speak from experience that the 3G running 4.2.1 that I still use "whilst no speed demon, at least runs reasonably well".

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#128

Post by tptacek »

watmough wrote: post #103
masklinn wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can say that I had a great life for this phone (3.5 years and counting) and that I'm not mad Apple decided to stop supporting it. I think ajanuary is talking about the fact that the 3G was still for sale until right before the iPhone 4 was released (see black rectangle). So people who bought a 3G right before the 4 was released (not necessarily a smart move) got about 10 months of support (support essentially end…

I speak from experience when I say, putting iOS 4 on the 3G was just a terrible idea. The 3G should have stayed with the 2G in being restricted to iOS 3.1.3, which whilst no speed demon, at least runs reasonably well, even now. The 3GS is the lowest hardware that should have been given iOS 4.

Didn't they address that in a subsequent iOS 4 update? My understanding is that 3G iOS4 support got a lot more tolerable.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#129

Post by chollida1 »

w0utert wrote: post #92
chollida1 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is easy to uninstall junkware on Windows, and to pop in a CD to upgrade or crossgrade the OS. Can you enlighten me as to what it means to "crossgrade the OS". Native english speaker and I've never heard the term :)

I'd imagine he means wiping the Windows install and installing some other OS, e.g. Linux, BSD or OSx86 or something. Not really an upgrade or downgrade of the Windows installation the machine shipped with. I think crossgrade is a nice way to put it ;-)

Ah, I thought it was some weird stripping down thing the kids were doing to windows these days.

Re: Android Orphans: Visualizing a Sad History of Support

#130

Post by kinofcain »

degusta wrote: post #2

I wrote the piece / did the research. Happy to answer any questions or comments people might have.

This is exactly the kind of in depth nerdery I love. Thanks for putting it together. It seems like it would be valuable as a standalone resource. You might even be able to get some help from the community in a wiki format for keeping it up to date.
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