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Restarting my career after motherhood

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Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#181
post #162

Why is at always the mothers who choose to be stay-at-home mothers, and very rarely fathers? In my opinion this makes things extra hard for mothers who want to resume their career, because men are used to working with men who don't take breaks from their career to raise their children. Taking time off to raise your children is a personal choice, but it doesn't make any sense that it's almost never the fathers who sta…

Women tend to make less than men so it makes economic sense for the woman to stay at home. The problem gets worse and the disparity as the man’s career progresses and the woman’s declines, sometimes to the point that day care comes with opportunity cost relative to not working - I.e., the woman’s income doesn’t offset the increased expenses. This is a systemic and structural tragedy. That said as a hiring manager I l…

I don't think it actually makes that much sense from an economical perspective if you look at it carefully.

First, the choice is not binary (i.e. mother or father stays at home). There's alternatives like working reduced hours (32 hours) and using day care. This is common practice in a lot of developed countries.

Second, the cost of the wage gap resulting from suspending your career for a few years, accumulated over your entire career length is really high. My income doubled in the last 5 years. Using day care then suddenly isn't that expensive at all, at least not in my country. But you have to make the right calculations, and look at the cost of reduced future wages as well.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#182
post #180
post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a very conservative view. Giving birth is something only the mother can do, but there is no biological reason why a mother should raise the child and not the father. This renders you argument about specialization mute. In almost every developed country, it's possible to work 32 hours instead of 40 hours, which means that with 3 days of daycare the mother and father can share the responsibility raising a child…

You misunderstood my argument. If father specialises for work, he can devote 100%. If mother specialises for work, she can only devote 90% (or whatever, to account for birth & recovery in first year). Therefore all things being equal (i.e. “controlling for other variables” in statistics) father specialising for work will be more profitable for the family than mother specialising for work. Everyone (well, every couple…

So if I understand correctly, you are saying there are two scenarios:

1. Father working full-time, mother staying-at-home for a few years

2. Father and mother working both reduced hours

Your conclusion is that sum of wages accumulated over the career length of both the father and the mother is higher in scenario 1 than in scenario 2?

If that's the case, then first of all I doubt that's true. And second, that means we as a society are sacrificing gender equality in return for disposable income. I think gender equality is not worth a small increase in disposable income (and I don't even think that staying at home economically is the better choice).

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#183
post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Based on the description of the article, the wife and the husband deliberately chose extreme positions - the wife as fully involved stay at home mother, and the father as all-time worker: Maybe you didn't mean it like this... but I find the use of the word "extreme" here in this context somewhat discomforting. Perhaps I'm an old-fashioned 35-year old, but her reasons for wanting to stay home don't come off as extre…

I understood it as both of them taking the far ends of the spectrum of work/parenting balance (one fully parenting, one fully working) rather than a "less extreme" scenario where both take more balanced roles in working/parenting. I didn't see it as an evaluation of the choice in lifestyle.

> one fully parenting, one fully working

Fully working = 8-10 hours a day

Still leaves a lot of time for parenting- and doesn’t seem so extreme, I’d say it’s one of the most common division of family life in the world

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#185
post #128

Never understood this employer fixation on unbroken careers. A career break may happen to anyone by infinite reasons beyond motherhood. Most people have such career-pausing or career-delaying events (health issues, depression, fatherhood , taking care of an elderly relative), most conceal it, motherhood just happens not to be concealable. And things don't change as fast. Not even in IT. And even if changed, legacy is…

I’ve been doing this stuff for over 30 years and I don’t think technology has appreciably changed in 30 years, it’s just refinements of the same old stuff over and over again with slightly different focuses depending on what has recently improved. The paradigm shifts are usually just caused by some bottleneck in the architecture getting a significant improvement allowing stuff that everyone knew could be possible to be possible using largely established techniques.

As a hiring manager, As long as someone can think about technology in the right way I’m happy to hire them and let them grow into a new tool chain. The thinking right part is the rare piece, the knowing XYZ tool of 2022 that’s an improvement on XYZ’ of 2012 doesn’t concern e.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#186
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why is at always the mothers who choose to be stay-at-home mothers, and very rarely fathers Because on average, fathers tend to make more than mothers. That's not the only calculation, but it's a big one.

Why don't the father and mother both work less? I.e. 4 days (32 hours) instead of 5 days (40 hours). As long as this is not common practice, combined with expensive or inaccessible daycare, women will always face more difficulties in their career. There's no biological justification for this, instead it's entirely the result of cultural conventions and political decisions. I think we should recognize this, because if…

> Why don't the father and mother both work less?

Because not every employer would allow this.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#187
post #182
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You misunderstood my argument. If father specialises for work, he can devote 100%. If mother specialises for work, she can only devote 90% (or whatever, to account for birth & recovery in first year). Therefore all things being equal (i.e. “controlling for other variables” in statistics) father specialising for work will be more profitable for the family than mother specialising for work. Everyone (well, every couple…

So if I understand correctly, you are saying there are two scenarios: 1. Father working full-time, mother staying-at-home for a few years 2. Father and mother working both reduced hours Your conclusion is that sum of wages accumulated over the career length of both the father and the mother is higher in scenario 1 than in scenario 2? If that's the case, then first of all I doubt that's true. And second, that means we…

No, I’m saying that (1) for most unequal splits, father working will be more profitable than mother working, because of biology (mother has to take time off), and (2) unequal splits are better than equal splits (e.g. both working 100%, or both working 60%) because the latter have negative externalities (childcare cost, kids raised by strangers, less career progress because only working 60% etc).

Some people will still take equal splits, but not all will.

> I think gender equality is not worth a small increase in disposable income

Not gonna respond to this part because I can’t really figure out what you meant, but one comment is: “gain for society, loss for individual” usually requires a fair amount of coercion.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#188
post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Women tend to make less than men so it makes economic sense for the woman to stay at home. The problem gets worse and the disparity as the man’s career progresses and the woman’s declines, sometimes to the point that day care comes with opportunity cost relative to not working - I.e., the woman’s income doesn’t offset the increased expenses. This is a systemic and structural tragedy. That said as a hiring manager I l…

I don't think it actually makes that much sense from an economical perspective if you look at it carefully. First, the choice is not binary (i.e. mother or father stays at home). There's alternatives like working reduced hours (32 hours) and using day care. This is common practice in a lot of developed countries. Second, the cost of the wage gap resulting from suspending your career for a few years, accumulated over…

The fact is a lot of parents (me included!) don’t want to outsource early childhood just to level up in our jobs. In that rationale, of someone is staying home, it is a binary choice. It’s not a fully economic choice, which makes it even MORE important you make the best economic choice for who stays home. Hence the man, given wage inequality, goes to work.

There are definitely couples that both work and leverage child care of some form. That’s a reasonable choice. But it’s also comes with a large trade off from a parenting point of view.

In my family I would have loved to stay home. But I made considerably more than my wife did. When she reentered the work force she faced a lot of obstacles and essentially started over again. Fortunately I work from 6am-3pm since I’m in seattle and the org I manage is based in the UK and NYC. So my wife can work a normal job and I can pick up my daughter at school without requiring child care expenses. But it’s a little depressing for my wife to have left a high powered career and now is bouncing around the bottom of the ladder. But it got us time to parent and let us earn the most money by letting my career keep growing. It just came at the cost of her pride and self worth as a professional.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#189
post #187
post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So if I understand correctly, you are saying there are two scenarios: 1. Father working full-time, mother staying-at-home for a few years 2. Father and mother working both reduced hours Your conclusion is that sum of wages accumulated over the career length of both the father and the mother is higher in scenario 1 than in scenario 2? If that's the case, then first of all I doubt that's true. And second, that means we…

No, I’m saying that (1) for most unequal splits, father working will be more profitable than mother working, because of biology (mother has to take time off), and (2) unequal splits are better than equal splits (e.g. both working 100%, or both working 60%) because the latter have negative externalities (childcare cost, kids raised by strangers, less career progress because only working 60% etc). Some people will stil…

Indeed you are right that "gain for society, loss for individual" requires coercion, so that's why equal splits should be more profitable (if it's not the case already). That's a political decision.

Re: Restarting my career after motherhood

#190
post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why don't the father and mother both work less? I.e. 4 days (32 hours) instead of 5 days (40 hours). As long as this is not common practice, combined with expensive or inaccessible daycare, women will always face more difficulties in their career. There's no biological justification for this, instead it's entirely the result of cultural conventions and political decisions. I think we should recognize this, because if…

> Why don't the father and mother both work less? Because not every employer would allow this.

That's the result of choices we, or our elected representatives, have made. There are other choices we can make.
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