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It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

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Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Elden Ring was exactly "make good game, sell it" and it sold very well.

diablo immortal is going to make A LOT more money than elden ring, so your example is not a good one. not even in the same universe.

It seems like a good example to me. It was a sales model that worked. That's all. It doesn't have to work better than every other sales model out there. It just has to be profitable and successful on its own.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#602
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I assume you would think this is bad right? Of course I agree with that. I was under the impression that we're not discussing whether addiction is bad -- it's widely known that it is. I was arguing that "Minecraft and Roblox and millions of other games feed off the weak minds of virtual cosmetic addicts" does not at all make the pay-to-win model of other games okay. Because it did seem like you went off on a whatab…

Yeah I feel you. I don't think I was whataboutism-ing. The parent comment said PoE is fine because it's just cosmetics in game that you can buy. I guess I should have said you could spend thousands of dollars on PoE on cosmetics, but I'm just stating that one isn't better than the other. The main topic to me is that people are saying they don't like p2w games, and it feels like a weak argument if you say you don't li…

MTX are not inherently evil, for example I fully support one-time unlocks with MTX. It's a fair business model. (Although in these cases they might not be called MTX at all; probably "expansions" or "DLCs".)

And the thing with cosmetics is that they're opt-in; whoever decides to never buy will also never be negatively affected -- which is not true for pay-to-win.

I guess that's why there's this "evilest, eviler, evil and less evil" scale of game MTX.

I personally would prefer all cosmetics be farmable but I'm okay with having those be also available for buying.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#603

I know this is a crazy thought and not inline with a lot of the blizzard hate - but why don't games like this allow more gifting style mechanics? I consider the Twitch gift sub market. And I consider that weird crypto game Axie Infinity. It seems we are only considering the purchasing power of whales that want to flex. What about whales that want to collaborate. Whales that want to demonstrate their generosity. I rem…

You end up with a huge security incentives problem. If there's a way to extract the value from one account and give it to another, you massively increase the incentive to phish users, set up black markets for buying items off of a hacked account, or just transfer it to your own.

Why not steal the idea of Pokémon go? Transfer doesn’t go to a person but to an area or group of people. You could pay to unlock an area and take a group of people on a quest. Or perhaps a boost or buff in an area.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#604
post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Blizzard is close to being a zombie company, the last game with true Blizzard pedigree was probably around 15 years ago, their last decent game was almost 10 years ago, they are milking the last few drops from the geriatric cash cow that is WoW, they have completely failed to capitalize on competitive games with Overwatch, Heroes of the Storm or even WoW arena, and they are all languishing, Diablo Immortal is a mobil…

I don't think it's true that their last decent game was almost 10 years ago. Overwatch is a really great game and it came out 6 years ago.

Compared to the kind of games that made Blizzard iconic like SCBW, TFT, D2, and early WoW which were basically pillars in the gaming world, the game, while polished, was a fairly mediocre Team Fortress variant in comparison. It also had lofty ambitions of sustaining a large e-sports scene to the point where investors were paying tens of millions to have the right of owning a team. That never materialized and the game has basically been stagnant for years, waiting for Overwatch 2 (which was recently teased and didn't appear to change much) while other games like Valorant or Apex have made it largely irrelevant in that space.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#605

I know this is a crazy thought and not inline with a lot of the blizzard hate - but why don't games like this allow more gifting style mechanics? I consider the Twitch gift sub market. And I consider that weird crypto game Axie Infinity. It seems we are only considering the purchasing power of whales that want to flex. What about whales that want to collaborate. Whales that want to demonstrate their generosity. I rem…

[deleted]

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#607
post #499

It's even more frustrating, because the game is good . I really enjoyed playing the first 30 levels or so. Good story, good controls, very satisfying gameplay. If I could pay $60 and just have a "classic" Diablo on my phone, I might. But I won't spend a cent on consumable in-app purchases. It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds…

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". Same can be said for software. Now it’s all SaaS where you have to pay monthly and choose from different pricing tiers or ala carte feature options to ‘win’ in a business sense.

At the heart of every SAAS offering is the core of the proposal: It takes money to make money. The same reason why finance related journals have largely kept alive while lifestyle magazines have shrivelled. If a thing costs money but ends up making you more then it's still a win-win.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#608
post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is so sad that "make good game, sell it" model no longer works. It's all a wonky curve of "free - couple of dollars - hundreds and thousands of dollars". What makes you say that? I mostly play single-player games where I just buy a game and then play it. There are loads of those out there, with more released every week. Even with my underpowered Linux laptop I have plenty to choose from.

Diablo 4 will probably just be a normal PC game too. Those freemium mobile games are always scammy but that doesn't mean there aren't endless classic business model games.

A publisher that has tasted fast cheap low value entries has a hard time justifying risky quality entries when the risk of failure is much higher. We're seeing the reality-tv moment in video games with mobile freemiums and it's frightening. I feel like Square-Enix is the perfect nexus if these market forces. I'm not even sure they'll bother with AAAs after making so much money off their low effort mobile cash cows.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they are wosrse. Gacha games are mostly card-puller games. You pay $X for X pulls, with more expensive packages giving more pulls with a supposed higher success rate of 'winning' (getting a good/rare pull). They use hidden weights, as well as max item rolls per day. This means that to keep items rare via artificial scarcity they will only allow so many of those cards to be pulled per X hours/days/whatever but the…

There are many gacha games on the market today that do post their odds and where player-validated data seems to support it. (Some jurisdictions like China and Japan require these kinds of disclosures.) But there are also a lot of markets that don’t require these kinds of disclosures and where there isn’t enough player data to draw a conclusion. So, in that case, how could you have confidence that they are not doing w…

Even the disclosure of odds isn’t enough imo, because often it’s odds of a “pull” that costs various amounts of abstracted in game currencies with complicated conversion rates between each other and to the money you put in. It becomes a very complicated math problem most people just ignore.

Re: It costs $110k to fully gear up in Diablo Immortal

#610

I know this is a crazy thought and not inline with a lot of the blizzard hate - but why don't games like this allow more gifting style mechanics? I consider the Twitch gift sub market. And I consider that weird crypto game Axie Infinity. It seems we are only considering the purchasing power of whales that want to flex. What about whales that want to collaborate. Whales that want to demonstrate their generosity. I rem…

When I was 11 some guy randomly gave me like 20k gp and dragonhide in RuneScape and I haven't forgotten that moment in the mines outside of Varrock since.
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