Google cancelled a talk on caste bias • Hacker News Board

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#971

Post by int_19h » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 3:08 AM UTC

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

In Russia (and also Ukraine and Belarus), it's more often the Caucasian people these days. And I don't mean the weird American synonym of "white", but actual people from the Caucasus - Chechens, Ossetians, Armenians, Georgians etc.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#972

Post by throwaway_1928 » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 4:10 AM UTC

int_19h wrote: post #965

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #893

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She did the same thing with Twitter CEO Parag Agrawal. It must be her modus operandi to target Indian American CEOs. https://twitter.com/dalitdiva/status/1465358123640655875

How many Dalits are there among Indian American CEOs?

Not sure.

How many Ethiopian Jews are there among Jewish American CEOs? How many Gypsies ("Romani") are there among European American CEOs?

Do you know?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#973

Post by sizzle » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 5:17 AM UTC

MauroIksem wrote: post #771

sizzle wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly agree on your second point, many first generation born south Asians I work for or work with that grew up within the suburbs couldn’t care less caste and simply don’t relate or identify with their parent’s generation and caste affiliation, they just want to be seen as American and are treated as such. Only older heads who immigrated here are the lions share of individuals perpetuating this caste based discrimin…

You mean second generation.

No, I mean first generation born on American soil as American citizens which is distinct from first wave of immigrants from a specific country of origin. Their children are first generation born American, second generation in America.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#974

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 6:46 AM UTC

Pigalowda wrote: post #307

There are 200+ million Dalits in India. These are the people which were previously called “untouchables”. I work in medicine, many Indians work with me and most are Brahmins with a few Christian Malayali from Kerala. I think the Malayali have shown it is possible to escape the caste system and to have success. However I am worried Dalits have been at the bottom and treated as such for thousands of years that it has e…

[deleted]

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#975

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 9:54 AM UTC

The most number of Hindus in west support RSS and in these western countries are so much vocal about minority rights and discrimination. In fact, most RSS support is from the creamy urban layer of Hindu society. It's not surprising to see the bad PR for Hinduism prevention is being done.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#976

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 10:37 AM UTC

lern_too_spel wrote: post #751

sizzle wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Highly agree on your second point, many first generation born south Asians I work for or work with that grew up within the suburbs couldn’t care less caste and simply don’t relate or identify with their parent’s generation and caste affiliation, they just want to be seen as American and are treated as such. Only older heads who immigrated here are the lions share of individuals perpetuating this caste based discrimin…

In my admittedly limited experience, people born to Indian parents in the US don't care about caste unless they are Brahmin, in which case, they'll be taught their caste rituals. Indians recently arrived from India care a lot more because reservation (think affirmative action by caste) and Hindu nationalism have become a big deal in Indian politics.

Hindu nationalism has the most support from Upper castes. The majority of Hindus in the west anyway support RSS and in the west they become champions of minority rights and anti-discrimination. A majority of Indians who come to the west are also mostly Upper castes because unlike the gulf which give the job to all strata of people, only high profile people are given visas which happen to be high castes because generationally they hold the majority of the country wealth. So how is your statement many Indians who come to the US care about caste due to reservation even make sense?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#977

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 10:47 AM UTC

lumpoi wrote: post #856

thelit wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Dalit myself, I wrote a Dalit 101 for non Indian audience. https://thelit.substack.com/p/dalit-101

I am not sure if you have rad Beautiful Tree by Dharampal. It has interesting info about Indian education during and before british occupation. There were large number of shudras and other castes(which he assumes in dalits) involved in various subjects. Like Malabar data from 1821, other castes where marjorly learning about Medicines, Astronomy. Which is kind of unheard before independence.

Malabar data is not proper one to study this because the Malabar region or present Kerala region didn't have a proper 4 caste system. Anyone, not Brahmin was Shudra and hence the rigid system like the north was never there. When north had manusmirthi the one in Kerala was Shankarasmrithi that had only Brahmin and the rest Shudras.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#978

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 10:50 AM UTC

hef19898 wrote: post #295

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

A good read for some additional context on caste discrimination in the American tech industry: https://www.wired.com/story/trapped-in-silicon-valleys-hidde...

It seems that, in some cases, immigrants import their biases with them, and stick to them instead of adopting cultural aspects of their host countries. This can, in a sense, make them less open minded and tolerant than non-immigrants. You can see examples of this all the way back to Gean immigrants to Russia and South America. I have no problem with this, after all immigrants are by no means obliged to be assimilated…

Modi and RSS have super high support from western Indians. https://www.thequint.com/voices/opinion/united-states-presid... - using this they have even been trying to influence US politics.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#979

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 11:15 AM UTC

spaceman_2020 wrote: post #494

Vaslo wrote: post #65

Question from a layman. How does one know that someone is from another caste? If I was someone from India, how would I know what caste my fellow Indian is from? Is there some kind of code? Or where you are from?

Here in New Delhi, people will straight up ask you, especially if they're older. Trying to get a house in Delhi as a single, straight male is an exercise in discrimination 101. Landlords will ask you if you drink alcohol, eat meat, have female friends, belong to a non-Hindu religion (especially if you're muslim), your caste, and heck, even what city/state you're from. My friends have been denied housing simply for be…

It's true in places you mentioned from even my understanding from multiple people. But it's the same in the whole of India is not correct, as Kerala comparatively has very less problems like this. It's actually surprising for people from Kerala to even know such issues still exist even in metro cities of other states. True that it makes sense to generalize your comment as Kerala is just 2.5 - 2.7% of the Indian population.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#980

Post by kadayadi » Sun, Jun 05, 2022, 11:35 AM UTC

throwjune22 wrote: post #905

throwjune22 wrote: post #904

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe these issues are all important and should be dealt with. I *don’t believe* it should be discussed out in the open within a “for profit business”. Leadership should acknowledge the issue, state their direction clearly and end the conversation.

Also I’m from a South American background and unfortunately was very ignorant of the Indian culture and have never met an Indian person until I immigrated. I have Indian colleagues and a one of them became a good friend. I asked him once or twice about castes and how it worked etc. He said it’s all bullshit and it didn’t matter and I felt like it was a topic he was felt awkward discussing so I made a mental note not…

Lol, the majority of Indians especially in the west are upper-caste Hindus. The funny thing is they say all progressiveness but support Hindu nationalist like Modi and RSS, make comments like the sh*t you mentioned but in reality have high caste pride and view non-Hindus as mlechas. It is also partly due to the colonial baggage of west of west, India is given a free pass and it's funny that even during colonial rule these upper castes were the ones who most benefitted.