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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#961

Post by senthil_rajasek »

india_usa wrote: post #571
AussieWog93 wrote: post #567

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative action system for access to education and government jobs. I've heard some pretty horrible stories about this in particular; like Brahmin kids being legally adopted into Sudra families in order to get into a reserved position at a State University, and rich kids with private tutors getting given…

There is 70% affirmitive action. If you are a Dalit with 50% mark you will get admission to a medical seat and you will be a cardiac surgeon, but if a brahmin girl gets 99% she will not get admission and will be a clerk. Go figure the Indian system. This is why you see thousands of Brahmins in Silicon valley as they are kicked out or disgusted with Indian political system of favoring lower castes. USA benefited immen…

>If you are a Dalit with 50% mark you will get admission to a medical seat and you will be a cardiac surgeon, but if a brahmin girl gets 99% she will not get admission and will be a clerk.

That brahmin girl may also go onto become the Defense Minister of India and then the finance minister because she is the right caste.

Meanwhile, the poor Dalit surgeon will be ostracized at his work and gets harassed by casteist everyday and is so depressed that he can't sleep and thinks about suicide all the time.

Nepotism tastes like butter but Affirmative action tastes bitter. This is the definition of hypocrisy.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#962

Post by [deleted] »

H8crilA wrote: post #152
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

These are not obscure at all! Especially the last one. See the intercepted phone calls from the security service of Ukraine, the level of Russian racism is beyond what I could imagine prior to Feb 24. It is worse than whatever the Red Army did in WW2, and almost reaching the level that the Nazis showed. Russian Nazism is very real, leads to rape, murder, forced deportation and torture.

[deleted]

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#963

Post by int_19h »

raxxorraxor wrote: post #814
hef19898 wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems that, in some cases, immigrants import their biases with them, and stick to them instead of adopting cultural aspects of their host countries. This can, in a sense, make them less open minded and tolerant than non-immigrants. You can see examples of this all the way back to Gean immigrants to Russia and South America. I have no problem with this, after all immigrants are by no means obliged to be assimilated…

> Erdogan has solid approval ratings among German based Turks This is nothing unusual for emigrants to support the preserving, conservative and strong-arm political position for their former home countries because many feel obligated to do so. The demographics of formerly rural Turks that immigrated to Germany is also relevant but I think the feeling of obligations for such "defensive" choices is a main driver. You c…

It's also common among Russians, but having witnessed it personally more than once, I don't think it's the case of "obligations". Most of those people sincerely believe in all that propaganda their mother country churns out.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#964

Post by int_19h »

pasabagi wrote: post #488
bell-cot wrote: post #417

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds extremely similar the ~century-ago situation in American feminism. Lesser right for women of "lesser" racial, religious, social, etc. backgrounds were, ah, not much of a concern.

It's also the same the other way around: a lot of male anti-racism activists / communists / etc were very sexist. Some still are. I still think it's nice that feminists are, today and historically, generally ahead of the curve when it comes to these things.

Quite a few people who are into the "revolution" stuff are there because of the associated macho masculinity. It's no coincidence that Che Guevara is such a popular icon.

Generally speaking, the more authoritarian someone on the left is, the more likely they are to be sexist. Stalinist tankies are the rock bottom.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#965

Post by int_19h »

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #893
nondravidian wrote: post #726

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds like she is actually trying to drag Pichai into a caste fight. Par for the course.

She did the same thing with Twitter CEO Parag Agrawal. It must be her modus operandi to target Indian American CEOs. https://twitter.com/dalitdiva/status/1465358123640655875

How many Dalits are there among Indian American CEOs?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#966

Post by int_19h »

sangnoir wrote: post #700
puranjay wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

High caste people in India will often find ways to casually mention their caste in conversation, sometimes within minutes of meeting someone new. Its reflexive - like subtly turning your wrist to show off a new watch. And I have no data to corroborate this, but I've felt caste chauvinism increase in the last few years.

> And I have no data to corroborate this, but I've felt caste chauvinism increase in the last few years. ...as has Hindu nationalism, as noted in the article.

There's a broad trend in the rise of populist ethnocultural nationalism around the world, which usually brings with it a revival of all kinds of discriminatory outlooks because they're "traditional".

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#967

Post by int_19h »

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #791
yes_really wrote: post #683

The real reason why Google canceled the talk is because the speaker has a long history of anti-hindu rhetoric and multiple employees complained about the talk to HR. That Washington Post article is lying (or being extremely disingenuous) to take advantage of outsiders without context of the situation.

The Washington Post does not like India or Hinduism.

They don't like Modi and BJP for sure. But if you're drawing equality between these and India or Hinduism, you're kinda implicitly asserting that the things that are problematic with the former stem from the latter.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#968

Post by int_19h »

throwaway_1928 wrote: post #860
DSingularity wrote: post #809

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My statement was on the present and in no way an easy-vs-west value judgement. Everyone knows that the European colonialism and the ongoing neocolonialist story are pure evil.

A rational person would fear those with a long history of reckless violence a lot more than those with a marked history of non violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahimsa

This is like a European pointing at the Bible and saying, "see, our holy book preaches non-violence, don't believe the naysayers!"

Meanwhile, how many Muslim pogroms have there been in India since independence?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#969

Post by int_19h »

ethbr0 wrote: post #101
brendoelfrendo wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That quote from the article gave me pause. It sounds like an admission that they wanted the good PR from having a caste bias speaker, but when having a conversation on a difficult topic actually became difficult, they backed down. Maybe, Google, instead of just giving up you should be asking why a speaker on Dalit rights and inclusion is causing "division and rancor" in your community? Or is that also a difficult con…

This quote from the article best summarizes similar efforts, even outside of Google, >> Longtime observers of Google’s struggles to promote diversity, equity and inclusion say the fallout fits a familiar pattern. Women of color are asked to advocate for change. Then they’re punished for disrupting the status quo. I'm not a big culture warrior, but I believe that if as a company you choose to do a thing, you do it ful…

Large private sector corporations are by definition vehicles of economic exploitation on a massive scale. Why do we expect them to sincerely do anything to reduce other forms of exploitation?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#970

Post by int_19h »

photochemsyn wrote: post #382
throwntoday wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Just because the Israeli government is highly repressive towards the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza, and treats non-Jews as second-class citizens within Israel proper, does not mean that all Jews around the world share this behavior. This is a rather hilarious statement as almost no one believes that. You are committing the same fallacy that you repudiated. Anyway inference is kind of predicated o…

If Israel (and Saudi Arabia) were to adopt American democratic norms than all members of their population (by which I mean, populations under their military control) would have a right to vote in national elections, yes? So everyone in the West Bank and Gaza would get one vote, same as everyone in Israel proper, for electing members to the national legislative body. Perhaps some degree of federation (as with American…

While we're on this subject, let's not forget that residents of American Samoa are also non-citizens, despite being under US rule.
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