Norway to track all supermarket purchases? • Hacker News Board

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#361

Post by init-as » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:05 PM UTC

Havoc wrote: post #12

Open to abuse & certainly not privacy friendly, but in a hypothetical world where governments can be trusted on that it seems very plausible that it could be a social plus. i.e. You can probably spot trends like person X spends a huge amount of their pay on nappies and babyfood...probably could do with some additional social help. Nordic countries probably come closest to said hypothetical but still seems kinda dicey

Governments can only be trusted when any given individual can be trusted. I understand that Norway’s current government is one of the most accountable and transparent in the world so the damage a given individual can do is limited, but that entails trusting all future governments.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#362

Post by mdp2021 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:06 PM UTC

einherjae wrote: post #358

mdp2021 wrote: post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As said in the article, we already share The article says that a number of people uses «loyalty programs». It mentions tracking though «debit card», and last time I checked Norwegians still have circulating cash. It does not mention Google, but surely there will be Norwegians that do not share data with it. Let us highlight that surely, some do not share at all. I do not understand, contextually, the idea of «balan…

Cash is available, but very very rare these days. Enough so that using it is an outlier for most people Debit, or mobile payments are the norm, to the point that even kids having a cookie stand will expect mobile payment.

> an outlier

Within a Paretian framework, anything good is an outlier. What you need is a system that allows the minoritarian good to be preserved.

So, within your sentences: "using it is an outlier for most people below 60 and for privacy conscious individuals".

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#363

Post by systemvoltage » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:07 PM UTC

mateo1 wrote: post #29

People seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Should we allow anyone to collect that data except democratically elected governments? What's the logic behind this?

Because giving this power to the only entity that has monopoly of coercion/violence is a terrible idea. See history.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#364

Post by mdp2021 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

hhjinks wrote: post #322

twobitshifter wrote: post #317

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can this be done legally in the US?

Why would someone who rejects society care about society's laws?

To avoid issues, to avoid conflict.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#365

Post by dotancohen » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:09 PM UTC

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231

jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

I do not think it likely that e.g. grocery stores are expending capital to develop and implement systems to give there customers leverage to pay them less money, with no benefit (never mind net benefit) to the grocery store.

It's more likely that there is a side to the art of tracking that you do not account for, than the idea that the grocery stores are so benevolent.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#366

Post by guerrilla » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:10 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #315

bobthepanda wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government certainly doesn't have a monopoly on violence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinkerton_(detective_agency)#H...

If you have to go back a two centuries to prove a point, you're probably not right.

They're called Securitas today and are very much active, they're often contracted out to by states. They're also notoriously corrupt and abusive.[1]

1. https://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Securitas#Kritik

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#367

Post by rdsubhas » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

yunohn wrote: post #344

karencarits wrote: post #178

One should be aware that Norway already has very comprehensive registers and databases about the population. Currently, it has only been a benefit, I think, as it enables detailed quality control of say health care services and high-quality register studies. For example, all health/hospital records of deceased Norwegians are digitalized ten years after death and added to a national register. No way to refuse. In my o…

> In my opinion, that is much more invasive Sorry, what? You’re saying a digitised deaths registry is more invasive than tracking all supermarket purchases?

No. That's not what the parent comment is saying.

They're saying that digitising the health records of the deceased is much more invasive.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#368

Post by c_--vote_win » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:12 PM UTC

No post body was provided.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#369

Post by hgomersall » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:16 PM UTC

WanderPanda wrote: post #293

wiz21c wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As said in the article, we already share our data with the supermarket, google, etc and whatever other systems that binds all of them together. In that situation, I'm happy that government has access to the same data because it gives it a way to balance the private sector power. Now what is needed is the ability to opt out.

Wow people really forgot that privacy is all about privacy with respect to the government because they are the ones with the monopoly on violence. It is tragic that people think private firms could ever be as evil as governments

If your government is untrustworthy, then you're screwed in any case. Reasonable interpretation of data was never an authoritarian regime's strong point.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#370

Post by thatwasunusual » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 7:17 PM UTC

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231

jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

> Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain.

The way it works in Norway at the moment is that you can get a membership at any of the grocery chains, download an app and what not. Then you register your debit card in that app, and it monitors what you buy, and you get discounted prices on stuff you buy the most of and/or benefits in general.

Personally I have no problem with this, because it's an opt-in thing.