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Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

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Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#271

Post by gruez »

Iv wrote: post #165
croes wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the worst a store can do to you, what's the worst a government can do to you? Don't make me confirm Godwin's law about democratically elected government.

A store can sell its data to authoritarian governments that can jail people, to insurance companies that in some countries can prevent you from getting a credit card, a loan or even a job. Now another question: what the best a government is likely to do with this data? What is the best a private company is likely to do with it?

>A store can sell its data to authoritarian governments that can jail people

I find it unlikely that my local supermarket is going to sell my purchasing habits to China or Iran. I'm far more worried about my local government getting their hands on it, but at that point I don't see the distinction.

>to insurance companies that in some countries can prevent you from getting a credit card, a loan or even a job.

In what country are insurance companies determining whether you can get a credit card/loan/job? Are you sure you don't mean credit bureaus?

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#272

Post by HWR_14 »

hericium wrote: post #133
jvm___ wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

> You're already being tracked by the grocery stores With cash and no store "loyalty" app - no. > wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart But this is not the case here.

>> You're already being tracked by the grocery stores > > With cash and no store "loyalty" app - no.

Assuming no facial recognition, phone tracking or license plate reading, all that means is they aren't tracking you between visits. Certainly the items purchased together are tracked. And they get lumped together into the "cash, no card" group. And if you buy any age restricted products where they can see your ID, your birthdate is entered into the system, which is probably unique enough among cardless cash users in any grocery store.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#273

Post by mh7 »

croes wrote: post #107
mateo1 wrote: post #29

People seem to suddenly forget that these transactions are already tracked and individually linked to you. Should we allow anyone to collect that data except democratically elected governments? What's the logic behind this?

What's the worst a store can do to you, what's the worst a government can do to you? Don't make me confirm Godwin's law about democratically elected government.

Grocery stores can ban me for life - which means I starve.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#274

Post by codewench »

Frost1x wrote: post #221
ratsmack wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart I don't know if that was sarcasm or you being really naive.

The enemy of my enemy is my friend. I'm fairly certain this is how many view this issue and supporting government over privatization in the current environment. They may not be your friend but they may help compete against and regulate those currently suppressing you. For that to change, privization needs to stop focusing on minimizing its alignment for personal gain and has to look at shedding a bit back towards soc…

Maxim 29: The enemy of my enemy is my enemy's enemy. No more. No less.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#275

Post by macinjosh »

jvm___ wrote: post #90
giantg2 wrote: post #14

"SSB claims they want a less time-consuming way of collecting and analysing household consumption statistics in order to inform tax policy, social assistance and child allowance." Aka the more we know about you, the more efficiently we can create policies to control your behavior to our liking.

You're already being tracked by the grocery stores, wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart vs. the grocery industry who just wants to sell you more?

> wouldn't it be better to be tracked by someone who at least tries to have your best interests at heart

This sounds like a fantasy. I much prefer the supermarket getting my data and trying to sell me more because their motivations are _clear_ to me.

The government is supposed to have my interests at heart yet, it is impossible to even come close to knowing everyone's interests. It is even more difficult to simultaneously satisfy them unless this "everyone" happens to be incredibly homogeneous in culture, values, and lifestyle. Kinda like a small northern country. Additionally, this assumes an altruistic leadership in the first place.

In reality what happens is the interests of the factions in power are what are held up by government at any given time. In democracy those factions change routinely and so do the things they care about. This creates uncertainty and risk. So yeah I prefer the predictability of a corporation to the ever changing and ever more powerful politics of government. At least I know what I am dealing with.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#276

Post by verisimi »

epgui wrote: post #254
verisimi wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule by the worst of us? Why do you accept it? Cos you were born somewhere? Do I have the right to create a new country, and make you a citizen? If not, where does the government's right to do that come from?!? In fact, it has no right - all the pieces of paper they w…

Quoted post unavailable.

No post body was provided.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#277

Post by [deleted] »

verisimi wrote: post #241
runnerup wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

I'd move to 'Individuland'! Where is it? Don't tell me that states have claimed everything and everyone?! Must I accept the authority of government and rule by the worst of us? Why do you accept it? Cos you were born somewhere? Do I have the right to create a new country, and make you a citizen? If not, where does the government's right to do that come from?!? In fact, it has no right - all the pieces of paper they w…

[deleted]

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#279

Post by gruez »

jacooper wrote: post #211
Beltalowda wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't necessarily disagree in principle, but I think what you're saying will be very hard or impossible. Those "business contributions to climate change" exist because they're producing goods that consumers want; you can't significantly reduce that without also affecting consumer lifestyles, by reducing the options for the number of goods, or making them more expensive. Further research in clean energy is all very…

Once we exsuahst all options to reduce climate change with limited impact on the customer, things like renewable energy(people don't care where their energy comes from), replacing unnecessary plastics with paper, etc, we can then talk about things like limiting meat consumption. But affecting peoples lifes without actually tackling industries and corporation that do way more harm is just stupid and basically serves O…

>>Those "business contributions to climate change" exist because they're producing goods that consumers want; you can't significantly reduce that without also affecting consumer lifestyles, by reducing the options for the number of goods, or making them more expensive.

>without actually tackling industries and corporation that do way more harm is just stupid

I think you're missing the parent poster's point, which is that consumers ultimately pay for everything. "tackling industries and corporation" ultimately means affecting consumer's lifestyles.

Re: Norway to track all supermarket purchases?

#280

Post by macinjosh »

saiya-jin wrote: post #269
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically, what is the worst possible consequence of a supermarket being able to track you? At worst, I suppose you be could be charged more for purchasing a certain item at that particular chain. I highly doubt this has ever happened, since it's bad for business. The usual consequence for getting tracked at the supermarket is getting a discount on certain groceries via a loyalty program, with zero downsides for…

You completely forgot that those data can and will be sold to anybody interested, anywhere. Much more worrisome image rather than taxing ie chronic junkfood eaters who will inevitably cost health system easily 100x compared to healthy persons.

I also can refuse to give my data to any corporation I please. Yet any data the government requires I am forced to provide and am unable to opt out.
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