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Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

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Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#131

I don't trust Ahrefs at all. The whole SEO industry is tainted, and Ahrefs is not a good part of it. I don't want a search engine that pays "creators" (a search engine finds things, if they want to monetize it it is after it is found). I want a search engine that runs exactly as many ads as are needed to pay for itself, nothing more. Preferably with an option to pay for myself as an option. I'm guessing that means ht…

It is tainted because the entire premise of "web search" is flawed. IMHO. Sure, one can provide "free web search", and this existed before search engine advertising was a thing, but over time one can see that the concept is flawed. The database being searched is public information. Every web user should have access to it. However, access to a database of public www content is generally not free. An single exception is Common Crawl. In practice one is more likely to pay for access to a web index. I would bet even the alternative search engine mentioned is paying for access.

An analogous situation is DNS. It is public information. Generally some of the database is made available for free, e.g., https://czds.icann.org/home. In practice many people get the information piecemeal via lookups from a third party via a shared DNS cache, e.g., an ISP DNS cache. However there are other ways to get the information. It is public information. There should not be a restriction, real or imagined, that one has to go through a third party to get it.

A further analogous situation is scans of www ports that check for httpds. If one runs a server that listens for connections on a public network, one should expect that the public may try to connect to it. This again is public information. No one should have to pay for access to it. However, often we see that bulk access is restricted to "security researchers". For example, censys.io will allow the public to search for free, with limits.

The trend I am seeing is that the public is being trained to view the web as something opaque. People pay ISP's to access the web yet they are led to believe there is no way to view what it contains. At least, not for free. The public is led to believe the only way to see what the web contains is to do naive searches through third party that is Hoovering up the data and trying to sell advertising services.

Imagine person A has a list of public information. Person B asks, "May I see the list." Person A says, "Sorry, but I compiled the list and therefore access to it requires a subscription. However I will let you search the list for free." The problem is that Person B will never know what is on the list, even though it is public information. Person B cannot even copy a small portion of the ordered list. IMHO, coupled with the perverse motivation of Person A to collect data and sell advertising services, this makes the concept of "search" flawed. If Person A said, "Sure, have a look at the list. If you need help searching through it, I can provide that service for a fee," then I would not see search as flawed.

In other words, I want to see more work like Common Crawl to share public information. Seeing the list, so to speak, can influence how one chooses to search it, so I want to see the list first. One of the flaws of today's "web search" is that it hides list entries that are not "popular" because non-popular entries have no value to advertisers.

The web seems to be becoming more and more opaque to its users. Like a Yellow Pages where no one can see past the first page. The competition to reach the first page is controlled by a third party "search provider" who can manipulate it to collect data and sell advertising services. However I want to be able to see the first page, the last page and all the pages in between. I want to be able to copy portions of the full list. I want to search a subset of the list without the use of a third party.

It is a strange business to commercialise access to public information.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#132
post #66
post #18

Found a bug, where is my bounty? https://yep.com/web?q=site%3Astackoverflow.com

How is that a bug?

"Something went wrong"

That's a way to say there was an error. There shouldn't be, search that on Google.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#133
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would it be a search engine's role to provide the entirety of every creators' livable wage? That would obviously be impossible for many reasons, and I don't see Yep making any claims about being a primary (or even significant) revenue source. Instead, they're proposing that the value of search comes from the end content, not the results page. The creator revenue stemming from that is inherently the appropriate am…

It seems we read the same article and understood it differently. The announcement post said : "Say Anne from Kentucky helps 4,000 people learn how to build container gardens via her Wordpress blog every month. She would receive $1,000 monthly from the search engine in return." To me this sounds like the idea of this model is to allow an average person doing casual blogging to make significant income? Given this premi…

So every time someone clicks to that blog about container gardens, the writer/owner of the blog gets $ 0.25?

Who pays? With money coming from where?

And how bad will SEO efforts become to get their hands on that kind of money, which is 10 times (not 1,000 times, my mistake) more than that same blog would make with advertising, if we considered a CPM rate of $ 25 ?

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#134
post #36

Doesn't render anything without Javascript. You know who does? Google.

This raises an interesting question. Presumably you are referring to search results on a browser where JS/Ecmascript is disabled.

Another interesting place where Ecmascript comes into play is the pages that have been scraped. One difference between search engines is how they handle SPAs, and 100% Ecmascript rendered pages from frameworks like React.

I wonder if they execute JS in order to build good search results from pages that are React style SPAs.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#135

I don't trust Ahrefs at all. The whole SEO industry is tainted, and Ahrefs is not a good part of it. I don't want a search engine that pays "creators" (a search engine finds things, if they want to monetize it it is after it is found). I want a search engine that runs exactly as many ads as are needed to pay for itself, nothing more. Preferably with an option to pay for myself as an option. I'm guessing that means ht…

Can you explain what ahrefs have done wrong prior to this? Not challenging it, but not aware of anything.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#136
post #25
post #20

As with most supposed Google killers, it suffers from the small issue of being terrible. Right now I'm in Los Angeles and looking to buy a roll of film. When I search for "where to buy film in los angeles": - Google gives me three top Maps results, all small photo stores relevant to my search, a Yelp results page, some relevant reddit discussions with recommendations, and then sites for some individual businesses. -…

>Right now I'm in Los Angeles and looking to buy a roll of film. When I search for "where to buy film in los angeles": I remember I was in school they'd teach you how to formulate search queries. You wouldn't ask questions like "how to bake a cookie", you'd use keywords like "cookie recipe". Search engines have progressed much since those days, such that you can ask questions and it would mostly know what you were lo…

First the SEO industry owned google for these question searches, and then Google realized that just making them work was easier than trying to change human behavior.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#137
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The profit share section ( https://yep.com/profit-share ) doesn't have any details as to how it works, which doesn't exactly fill me with confidence.

How is this even supposed to function? It's as if Grubhub went and said they're now doing delivery from every single restaurant in the US

Grubhub made a fake website for every restaurant in the US...

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#138

Bummer it does not have image search. Still have to use Google because its image search - specially the file type filter, and letting search for things like SVGs.

Image search is coming. We have it working but it is not fast enough yet.

It took bing years to get the porn out of its image search.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I worked for a company in the SEO space a bit over a decade ago, initially to try and learn the things you call out above. My surprise at the time was to discover most of the snake oil being sold as “SEO” was nothing more than basic usability 101 stuff. Make sure titles are descriptive. Try to use terms that your readers would use and recognise to ensure the content resonates. Structure your content in a sensible way…

I disagree, and I'll also note that being out of a field for a decade in tech is a long time (late 2000's SEO was very different). To prove the contrary point is really the easiest thing in the world. 1. Think of some product niche: say, best dog toys. 2. Google it. 3. Click on the top 5 search results. 4. Now, judge for yourself: Are these good quality links which look like they were written by a smart human who sim…

I think you’ve misread my point. We agree.

Re: Yep: Google alternative that shares revenue with creators – by Ahrefs

#140
post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

Yeah, a bad article ranking higher is obviously graverobbing /s

what part of the analogy do you object to?

Is it just that it isn't literally desecrating a corpse?

Do you have an alternative example of "something which a shove is especially useful for and which which could be lucrative, but which is widely regarded as bad" ?

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