Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores • Hacker News Board

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#271

Post by tomcam » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:17 AM UTC

rightbyte wrote: post #127

petercooper wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but since Brexit I've noticed the shelf life of fruit and veg has gone through the floor (I suspect the time the produce takes to reach the shelf has increased). For things that have advisory "best by" dates on (e.g. strawberries), where you used to get a date a week in the future, now you need to take care to not buy something with tomorrow's date. In semi-related news, The Independent…

I have noticed the same thing with Christmas trees. They lose their "tiny green things" (name?) earlier. Maybe picker/cutter shortages? Like instead of picking the strawberries or cutting trees with 10 people in one week 5 people do it in two weeks? To fill up one truck load.

> "tiny green things"

“Pine needles”, as we say in the business

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#272

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:18 AM UTC

Natsu wrote: post #185

throwaway892238 wrote: post #160

I guess people have forgotten the world before supermarkets (the replacement for traditional 'grocery stores'). You could not buy a pineapple or a banana or an orange. It was impossible. What made it possible were the literal overthrow of governments by corporations that acted like pirates with a monopoly on a given crop, in combination with technical and logistical revolutions. It's also amazing to see supermarkets…

The banana republics created were quite awful, no question there. But current government subsidies are there so that we don't see worse food shortages during times when food production is disrupted. Say, some guy far away declaring war on an area that produces a significant fraction of the wheat in the world, or some country that sells a lot of fertilizer and/or oil not selling it so much any more for whatever reason…

[deleted]

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#273

Post by WalterBright » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:19 AM UTC

JJMcJ wrote: post #259

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

> fast with few ingredients Slice an onion. Slice mushrooms. Fry up with ground beef. Add a little water or soup stock or bone broth. Let simmer for a minute. Quick meal. Just one of a million examples for quick recipes that take minimal skill. You can even run the veggies through a chopper or food processor.

I regularly grind up a pile of vegetables in the vitamix and drink the result. Prep time is 5 minutes. Cleanup is 1 minute.

I'm not really buying the "no time to eat healthy" thing.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#274

Post by philwelch » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:20 AM UTC

asiachick wrote: post #236

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

I'm sure supermarkets now are better than what you grew up with in Montana but I have the opposite experience. I'm in SF, we supposedly have good produce, farmer's markets, and big supermarkets with lots of selection. But they pale in comparison to what I'm used to from Japan and France. The bread here in SF is horrid and that includes that massively over rated Tartine, not to mention how bad the baked products are a…

Have you ever bought groceries anywhere in the US other than SF? I’ve noticed a lot of variation even within the US.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#275

Post by kolanos » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:23 AM UTC

sdrabing wrote: post #84

Something about comparing the US to other rich nations rubs me the wrong way when, in my opinion, servicing a country as large as the US is very different from servicing a small island like the UK. The post talks about difference in margins and regional squeezing, etc. However, how much of the cost difference comes from transporting the goods? The post also mentions how large stores are, and how large of a selection…

For perspective, France is slightly smaller than two Colorados.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#276

Post by lettergram » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:24 AM UTC

quartesixte wrote: post #228

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

As a child of immigrants (who were farmers/rural prior to coming to America) sit-down dinner with family was tantamount if you were eating at home that day. I assumed everyone did this, until I found out most of my friends did not eat dinner together with family. My shock at this was immense. I wonder if Thanksgiving dinners are equally so contentious as they are cherished because of how rare family dinners have beco…

My family growing up and my family now; we make it an absolute must to eat every dinner together. We also tend to invite people over.

It’s honestly the most important thing you can do as a parent. Let’s you know about your kids lives, share in the ritual, and generally bond.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#277

Post by refurb » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:25 AM UTC

bsder wrote: post #167

refurb wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always find the Walmart Vlasik story funny. I mean Vlasik could always say no? If they were dumb enough to enter into a deal with Walmart than was worse than no deal at all, that’s on them. My guess is some sales dude thought he could get a good deal with Walmart, couldn’t, took it anyways, then decided to blame Walmart. I mean if I need my house painted and some painter offers a deal where they lose money don’t bl…

> I mean Vlasik could always say no? Saying no doesn't always work out either. See: Snapper https://www.fastcompany.com/54763/man-who-said-no-wal-mart Snapper got bought by Briggs & Stratton and the Georgia plant was closed.

Sounds like Snapper, similar to Vlasik, was headed for the crapper Walmart or no Walmart.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#278

Post by jandrewrogers » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:27 AM UTC

asiachick wrote: post #236

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

I'm sure supermarkets now are better than what you grew up with in Montana but I have the opposite experience. I'm in SF, we supposedly have good produce, farmer's markets, and big supermarkets with lots of selection. But they pale in comparison to what I'm used to from Japan and France. The bread here in SF is horrid and that includes that massively over rated Tartine, not to mention how bad the baked products are a…

I don't think this generalizes, it really depends on where you live in the US. I work in Europe and know many US expats there, so this is something we talk about.

The consensus has been that the quality and diversity of fresh foods in the US these days is frequently superior in many categories at the median, though notably worse in others. The paucity of good produce is noticeable everywhere, for example, a fraction of what is available in (my case) Seattle. Meat quality in the US has always been relatively excellent, though depending on what part of the US you live not always diverse. European butter is superior on average, but cheese shops have a similar range in big cities. Seafood in Europe is excellent along the coast, better than the US outside of a handful of fishery adjacent cities, but often poorer than the US once you move inland. The bread is indistinguishable for the most part.

Processed and cured meat products is still an area where available European products are unambiguously ahead of what is commonly available in the US. The US has improved a lot in this regard but it hasn't caught up yet.

Some of these are arguable of course. The one consistent thing everyone notices is the limited diversity and availability of fresh vegetables in Europe, and beef quality, but that is a pretty natural consequence of geography. All of which should be separated from the cuisine produced with said fresh ingredients.

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#279

Post by ramraj07 » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:28 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

I’d trust a good can of tomatoes before I touch the borderline unappealing off season strawberries they have in those markets. Happy that you’re trying not to judge but looks like you still have a ways to go before getting off a high horse. As oogway says, “one often meets their destiny on their path to avoid it.” When I remember the solid research showing people taking multivitamins die faster I keep thinking what might be in store for people who swear organic food will make them live longer.

Like your railing on frozen food. You realize frozen food is far fresher and less likely to have “chemicals” or whatever is your choice enemy right?

Re: Americans are poorly served by their grocery stores

#280

Post by MisterBastahrd » Sat, Jun 04, 2022, 4:28 AM UTC

DubiousPusher wrote: post #172

I grew up in Montana so I am probably one of the few millennial Americans that probably recalls what life is like before supermarkets. They were just becoming a thing there as I was growing up. (Very, What's Eating Gilbert Grape.) We had an IGA in the small town I grew up in. The fresh food options there were borderline Soviet. We went to a butcher to get our meat when we didn't have meat from hunting. We got produce…

One of the problems with Americans and food is that we've been conditioned to have sugar in absolutely everything, and the 80s made it worse because of the low-fat fad (they just increased sugar content to maintain mouthfeel). Ask any Gen Xer and they'll regale you with nightmares of the dominance of oat bran in 80s cuisine. On the one hand, you get a muffin. On the other hand, it tastes like cardboard flavored with sugar and cinnamon.

Try making a traditional tomato sauce using canned tomatoes and follow the recipe exactly... then compare that to Prego or Ragu. The store brands taste like a freaking dessert topping comparatively.

Most people don't eat enough low-cost, high-availability items like cucumbers and spinach, and they don't manage to learn how to do things like make their own bread, which is far superior fresh from the oven than anything you can get from a supermarket bakery. They also don't appreciate frozen vegetables, which are just as healthy as the fresh stuff, even if it might not taste quite as good some of the time.

One of the things that the Food Network did a HUGE disservice to people is that a couple of entire generations (Xers and Millennials) were convinced into believing that everything needs to be cooked from scratch and that any meal that involves a kit or a flavor packet is inferior. There was maybe one show on that entire network with a host who would use kits and flavor packets and other items, and she was regularly panned by the audience for not being "authentic" enough.