What a gas stove ban means for restaurants • Hacker News Board

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#451

Post by DocG » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 10:56 PM UTC

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

I'm not a professional cook.

I miss gas stove over the induction because:

1. I have visual indicatation on how hot it is. The numbers is just not so good indicator.

2. I miss trashing pans around, specially when managin multiple things at once. Glass induction would not be able to withstand it. So suddenly I have to be gentle with machinery.

3. God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Suddenly I have to try to cleanup a hot glass and manage the whole mess. Gas, because it was raised, cleanup could be done later once food prep was over.

4. I'f there is powerloss (hi wars and other stuff) I don't really care. I used to run propane tanks 11kg, no pipes, refilled once-twice a year.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#452

Post by Hello71 » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 10:59 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #445

Hello71 wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

biofuel is carbon-neutral. it might cause some particulate pollution, but if it's minimal enough for use in a restaurant dining area, then the environmental impact is probably negligible.

The occupational risk seems pretty high. I recall hearing that using a wood stove indoors to prepare 3 meals a day is equivalent to smoking two packs of cigarettes a day. People would be upset if their employer forced them to smoke two packs of cigarettes a day. For the customer that's in there for an hour or two, though, not a big deal.

that's true, I didn't think about that. a restaurant probably has better ventilation and better fuel than a crappy household wood stove, but even, say, half a pack per day is a lot.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#453

Post by wbsss4412 » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 10:59 PM UTC

DocG wrote: post #451

KingMachiavelli wrote: post #275

A large reason electric (restive and induction) are seen as inferior to gas is that portable units are limited to 120v/15a (few are 20a) so the total possible power is technically less than a gas stove; 2800w effective. However, gas stoves are very inefficient so in reality it's not a huge problem and 240v electric stoves could even be hotter (~4000w) than a gas stove. > Xie estimates that he pays around $500 to $700…

I'm not a professional cook. I miss gas stove over the induction because: 1. I have visual indicatation on how hot it is. The numbers is just not so good indicator. 2. I miss trashing pans around, specially when managin multiple things at once. Glass induction would not be able to withstand it. So suddenly I have to be gentle with machinery. 3. God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Sudde…

> God forbid I spill something in the middle of cooking on induction. Suddenly I have to try to cleanup a hot glass and manage the whole mess.

I think you’re overestimating how hot induction stoves get, the element itself doesn’t heat up at all.

When you have a significant spill on a gas stove, it can put the flame out partially or entirely, which is much more of a challenge than wiping off an induction element.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#454

Post by mikkergp » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:00 PM UTC

chimeracoder wrote: post #353

corrral wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The other reason is that it is better! You can actually get an induction stove to heat up faster than a gas stove, if it is wired properly They're more expensive, though, and it's harder to find ones without 100% terrible touch controls (especially if you're also trying not to pay a ton of money). If you have a cheap gas range and want an electric replacement at roughly the same price, your options are all garbage,…

> They're more expensive, though, and it's harder to find ones without aren't 100% terrible touch controls (especially if you're also trying not to pay a ton of money). They're more expensive, but amortized over the cost of the lifespan, it's not a big difference. And because it's more efficient, it's oftentimes going to be cheaper in the long run, depending on the relative price of gas and electricity in your area.…

I'm kind of excited about this because I hope it increases demand for induction stoves so that they fix useability issues like this, and make more. Right now you're lucky to go to Best Buy or Home Depot and find a single induction stove.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#455

Post by JumpCrisscross » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:04 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #431

mason55 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you thinking of electric coil? Induction heats up super fast (way faster than gas or electric coil) because the stove itself doesn’t get warm - it transfers energy directly into the pan.

It's an interface issue. Instead of a knob, it's usually a touch interface, with +/- control, and slowish.

UI is orthogonal to the heat source.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#456

Post by thirtyfivecent » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:05 PM UTC

tbossanova wrote: post #378

m00x wrote: post #355

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me the data where it says how much gas stoves contribute to climate change. It's probably so insignificant that it's purely a point for virtue signaling. I've had a gas stove for years and I still haven't needed to refill the tank, and it's not even that big of a tank. Shipping your new induction stove will probably use more gas than you will in a decade of cooking. Induction stoves can't be used for things like…

The problem with this point of view is that each contributor to climate change, by itself, is not especially significant. So if we dismiss each individually as being insignificant, we end up doing nothing about any of them. That’s my perception anyway, if you know of the big, highest priority climate change contributor that should be focused on before the smaller things, please let me know!

No post body was provided.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#457

Post by marvin » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:06 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #431

mason55 wrote: post #421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you thinking of electric coil? Induction heats up super fast (way faster than gas or electric coil) because the stove itself doesn’t get warm - it transfers energy directly into the pan.

It's an interface issue. Instead of a knob, it's usually a touch interface, with +/- control, and slowish.

Don't understand why this was downvoted. The induction stoves I've used all had a touchpad controls, for some reason. They take one second to change the power output 10%, with hotkeys for 100% and 40%.

It would be trivial to add a dial with some simple fail-safe.

They're incredibly responsive, though, more so than the gas stoves I've used. Never tried the following with gas, I'm guessing it would work, but you can easily turn down the power as a pot of pasta has started boiling over, and it'll stop before the foam pours over the top of the pot.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#458

Post by cmclaughlin » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:07 PM UTC

saxonww wrote: post #403

BeetleB wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have statistics on people's preferences? Anecdotes: I've yet to live in an apartment/house that actually had a gas stove. No one I know made gas a criterion when house/apartment hunting. They use whatever the place has. When leaving a place with a gas stove, none of them cared if the new place would be electric or gas. On the flip side, I know quite a few people that exclude places with gas stoves when hunting…

I would prefer gas over regular electric for kitchen stove and range. I like having a gas water heater, although I understand there are more expensive electric units that end up being more efficient, and that is appealing. I would like to have a gas clothes dryer vs. electric, but don't have the option. Regular electric ranges typically do not perform as well for cooking. They can be better for cleaning and aesthetic…

> I've ever talked to someone who cares about electric vs. gas ovens though, and I am not sure that either would necessarily have a performance advantage over the other.

Actually lots of people care about gas versus electric ovens. If you look at high end ranges, “dual-fuel” is the product category name which is gas stove with electric oven.

One reason why chefs prefer electric ovens, or rather why gas ovens are not preferable is that gas contains humidity. That additional moisture is desirable at times, but not always. On the very high end, an electric oven with a steam reservoir allows the chef to control the humidity. For instance, you can bake bread with steam for a soft rise and finish with no humidity for a crunchy crust. I’ve never seen a steam oven fueled by gas, but I haven’t sought one out. If this has peaked anyone’s interest Anova makes a countertop steam oven that’s great - previously this was only available on commercial equipment and the fanciest home ovens.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#459

Post by BeetleB » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:09 PM UTC

saxonww wrote: post #403

BeetleB wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have statistics on people's preferences? Anecdotes: I've yet to live in an apartment/house that actually had a gas stove. No one I know made gas a criterion when house/apartment hunting. They use whatever the place has. When leaving a place with a gas stove, none of them cared if the new place would be electric or gas. On the flip side, I know quite a few people that exclude places with gas stoves when hunting…

I would prefer gas over regular electric for kitchen stove and range. I like having a gas water heater, although I understand there are more expensive electric units that end up being more efficient, and that is appealing. I would like to have a gas clothes dryer vs. electric, but don't have the option. Regular electric ranges typically do not perform as well for cooking. They can be better for cleaning and aesthetic…

> I like having a gas water heater, although I understand there are more expensive electric units that end up being more efficient, and that is appealing.

Oh for sure - for heating the house and water, I prefer gas. At least where I live it's more cost effective than electric. In fact, my electric bill in my 1 bedroom apartment (all heating was electric) was just a tad lower than my gas + electric when I moved into a much bigger house.

And of course, gas fireplaces. Once you get used to it, you can't imagine life without it. Electric heaters are horrible in comparison.

My comment was really just about cooking as that is what the parent was referring to.

Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants

#460

Post by marvin » Fri, Jun 03, 2022, 11:12 PM UTC

mason55 wrote: post #427

hammock wrote: post #386

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty much every argument I have read in this post boils down to "electric is better" but crucially ignores a) the idea that preferences are individual, and b) even accepting something as universally "better" doesn't mean we ought to legislate it across an entire group of people (AKA centrally plan the economy).

One person’s “centrally planned economy” is another person’s “managing negative externalities” A lot of the “electric is better” posts have an implied “gas stoves are bad for people and the environment so we should get rid of them but it’s fine because electric is better anyway”.

Negative externalities would ideally just be handled through proportional taxation. Then market incentives work it out. Taxes are used to clean up the externalities.