Manpuku Tokyo BBQ in LA does charcoal bbq at the table. As long as they don’t ban that, we’ll be fine.
What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
331–340 of 614 posts
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#332Earlier quoted context omitted.
Why would this disincentivize construction? If anything, building a home without gas infrastructure should be cheaper. Lower building costs. One less utility meter to be installed. Reduced "impact" charges. Assuming it doesn't lead to a decrease in new home demand vs older homes with gas, this should be a boon to the construction industry.
People don’t want a lack of gas line. Those that care can turn their own gas off, yet sell to someone that does care.
If people prefer gas that much then existing homes will be more highly valued. That does not change the equation for everyone that's already priced out of existing properties.
Considering the extreme shortage of housing inventory in our most prosperous cities I doubt gas hookups kill any projects.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#333Wow. So much bullshit. Where do I start. Most importantly, the motion only bans gas appliances in new construction. Now think about this and re-read the article with this important fact in mind, and you will discover that nothing in the article is actually the least bit relevant for the proposed ordinance. Everything they talk about refers to existing restaurants in existing buildings, which will not be affected by t…
Honestly we should be banning new gas hookups (as proposed here) and going even further to incentivise removal of existing ones. Climate change is a life or death situation, and we need to be acting way faster. That alone is reason enough. The other reason is that it is better! You can actually get an induction stove to heat up faster than a gas stove, if it is wired properly
> The other reason is that it is better! You can actually get an induction stove to heat up faster than a gas stove, if it is wired properly
They're more expensive, though, and it's harder to find ones without 100% terrible touch controls (especially if you're also trying not to pay a ton of money).
If you have a cheap gas range and want an electric replacement at roughly the same price, your options are all garbage, not high-quality induction ranges.
[EDIT] Oh, they also seem to be more fragile and harder and/or more expensive to repair if they do break, making lifetime ownership cost even worse than what the up-front cost alone implies, and that's already not great.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#334Seems like a lot of the interest in these bans is coming from new research like this [Stanford study]( https://news.stanford.edu/2022/01/27/rethinking-cooking-gas/ ) showing gas stoves emit more methane than previously thought. They say all residential stoves in the US emit GHG equivalent to 500,000 cars. There are 276 million cars in the US. So, this problem is about 1/500 of the car problem. If you eliminated all s…
This relates to a difficult topic, which is: should modern civilization be 100% carbon neutral? Some things are inherently difficult to make electric, yet we need them to have what we'd call a "modern civilization". Planes are the biggest one: there is a drive to use more trains instead of planes, but should we give that up? It is definitely a step backwards in civilization, as large parts of the world are now imposs…
I don't think that this is relevant at all in the context of this discussion - electric cooking methods - particularly induction - are superior to gas in essentially every way, shape or form - barring the production of wok hei, which is why the article stresses that so much, while conveniently leaving out all the massive downsides of gas stoves.
Gas stoves are also generally used by gas companies to get gas lines drawn into buildings, so that they can easily sell gas to the bigger consumer of gas - heating. And indeed, in this aspect too, gas is _vastly_ inferior to modern heating technologies such as heat pumps.
There is no real convenience trade-off when it comes to gas. It's time for it to die, permanently.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#335Earlier quoted context omitted.
The impact of something else doesn't change the impact of what you do. If someone hands you a $1 million check, you don't say 'this is nothing compared to a $1 billion check; I'm not going to cash it'. If you create an open source project, you don't say 'it's not Linux, so I'm going to abandon it'. It's an absurd rhetorical argument. Just cut the GHG where you can. This relative impact argument is the latest FUD, IMH…
I think the point is that a lot of the actions being taken are more for optics than impact. This ban is only in LA, tiny localized action is more like someone handing you a check for 30 cents when you're a billionaire... you're probably not going to bother cashing that check. I'm not even a millionaire and I have often let checks for less than $1 sit around for too long, so I can't cash them. Focusing on these 30 cen…
I'd much rather the second largest city in the US take an initial stand that hopefully leads others to follow than sit around for 20 years waiting for Congress to fix things.
The eventual legalization of marijuana at the federal level will have started with cities and states decriminalizing its possession and use.
Change has to start somewhere.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#336I don't see how it makes sense: the electricity has to be generated, which is almost always via burning something to heat a boiler. Then the electricity is sent to houses via the grid, which involves further losses. So you burn something, make heat, make electricity, send the electricity though wires, to make heat. Vs, just making heat directly in the house to accomplish the job. If all our electricity came from rene…
> I don't see how it makes sense: the electricity has to be generated, which is almost always via burning something to heat a boiler. Then the electricity is sent to houses via the grid, which involves further losses. So you burn something, make heat, make electricity, send the electricity though wires, to make heat. Vs, just making heat directly in the house to accomplish the job. This argument seems to assume that…
Interestingly enough, dinner hours are the times when California relies the most on natural gas for electricity production. Hopefully that changes in the future, but I wonder if all this ordinance does is further centralize natural gas usage at a single point of failure.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#337Earlier quoted context omitted.
Neither is true nor false, it was a rhetorical exaggeration for effect. But yes, it's very close because corporations are far more responsible for CO2 than individuals. > Transportation (27% of 2020 greenhouse gas emissions) – The transportation sector generates the largest share of greenhouse gas emissions. Greenhouse gas emissions from transportation primarily come from burning fossil fuel for our cars, trucks, shi…
Every example of corporate CO2 emission is in service of consumer needs. The consumer is obviously accountable too. You can't sit and eat a mail order stake from japan and say you have no carbon footprint, but the airline and ag industries do. The obvious answer has always been cap and trade, but it is dead on arrival because consumers don't want to pay more for their CO2 intensive goods.
> Every example of corporate CO2 emission is in service of consumer needs.
They have no power over how such things are produced. Markets are not democracies. Everything those corporations are doing can be done in a sustainable way, but they choose not to for the sake of growth.
You're also forgetting all the manipulative advertising and propaganda driving people to consume more for the sake of growth.
Anyway, even if every single consumer made the absolute best choice (which is impossible given information asymmetry and finite wealth), then corporations would still be responsible for 90% and the news would still be talking about individuals 99% of the time.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#338Earlier quoted context omitted.
Huh, I've never used an induction one, and I've been to a bunch in Chicagoland and LA. Even at home we use a butane grill.
What's a good one in Chicagoland? I get over there every once in a while.
Not OP, but San Soo Gab San (Western & Foster) was always great when I lived in Chicago.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#339I've got a Control Freak, probably the highest end induction cooktop available for a home chef, and is even used in 3 michelin star restaurants like Alinea. It's amazing for consistency, holding temperature, and a dozen other things. It's quite responsive in general! But I still reach for my Iwatani butane stove and copper saucepot sometimes. These are still significantly more responsive even than a top of the line i…
This is very true, and my saucier skills are poor, but once upon a time I swore by thin aluminum or copper cookware for making eggs--especially omelettes. A couple of years ago, we decided to install an induction range in our home and, of course, those pieces of cookware were no longer usable and my eggs suffered until I learned about carbon steel pans and modified my technique a little bit. Induction with carbon steel isn't quite as responsive as copper or quality aluminum pieces, but it's dang close when used with a good induction system, and I also haven't had a flare up when frying at high temps since the change over.
Flip side is that cookware maintenance is now higher, and I spend a lot more time ensuring my pans have a good seasoning on them. But good food is worth the effort!
For certain sauces though--especially acidic ones--I'm not sure there's a better option than a gas hob just yet.
Re: What a gas stove ban means for restaurants
#340Your home stove is probably around 7,000 BTU/hr (perhaps up to 20,000 if you have a fancy stove). Professional woks use 100,000 at the very minimum.
That's only 30 kilowatts, which is really modest in terms of power demand for a commercial kitchen. And electric cooking can often deliver heat more efficiently to the cookware. Electric equivalent to 100k BTU/hr gas is not very hard to achieve.
There are certainly 100k BTU/hr induction woks