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Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

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Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#211

Post by Escapado »

daedalus_f wrote: post #185
saiya-jin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...

In this circumstance (crashing into the back of a tesla breaking hard) you would have been the person primarily to blame. Yes tesla sells a dodgy "autopilot" that does unexpected things (and in my opinion should not be road legal until fixed), but you were tailgating to the point where you couldn’t stop in time. The car behind has to be responsible for maintaining safe separation to the car in front (under reasonable…

I kind of agree, however at least from my experience in Germany keeping at least the minimum legal distance is an exception rather than the norm. It kinda makes me mad and I wish it was mandatory for all cars to have sensors which would either not allow you to get closer given a certain speed to be in line with the regulations or at least make a really annoying sound so that you simply wouldn't want to. I would bet this would save so many lives.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#212

Post by throwaway894345 »

saiya-jin wrote: post #150
jjulius wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them. This is the important part. Doesn't matter what the intent was, the fact of the matter is that the people behind you nearly rear-ended you because of your car's actions. And you, as the driver, never know when you might piss off the wrong driver - brake check the wrong person and suddenly you're in trouble with someone who might not care if yo…

I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...

There's a difference between doing bad things to prevent someone from hurting your kids and doing bad things to someone who hurt your kids in an accident. Acting in defense is justified, but acting in revenge should rightly land you in legal trouble (including prison depending on the severity of the "bad things").

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#214

Post by samatman »

Teever wrote: post #69
mensetmanusman wrote: post #59

They should give drivers a simple way to notify Tesla exactly when phantom breaking happens. E.g. use the mic and when Tesla users say ‘Tesla phantom’ it would send the flagged data to a central repository to train against. Regardless of your feelings towards Tesla, we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like…

> we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like with nuclear tech today). That's quite the leap. A far more reasonable statement would be 'we need someone like Ralph Nader to spearhead initiatives to regulate self driving cars to prevent the disasters we saw in automobile safety in the 1950s-1960s.'

Which disasters in automobile safety are you talking about?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_vehicle_fatality_rate_in...

If there's a Ralph Nader effect in these data, it's hard to see.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#215

Post by yupper32 »

daedalus_f wrote: post #185
saiya-jin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...

In this circumstance (crashing into the back of a tesla breaking hard) you would have been the person primarily to blame. Yes tesla sells a dodgy "autopilot" that does unexpected things (and in my opinion should not be road legal until fixed), but you were tailgating to the point where you couldn’t stop in time. The car behind has to be responsible for maintaining safe separation to the car in front (under reasonable…

You and the Tesla aren't the only ones on the road. You can't control people behind you being just close enough to not be able to stop. Or having another person behind the Tesla swerve into you when trying to avoid hitting the Tesla.

There are plenty of scenarios where you are still impacted by the brake checking Tesla without you being at fault.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#216

Post by Delphiki »

silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

2018 Model 3 with Enhanced Autopilot. I took a weekend trip from LA to Phoenix a few months back. I was in the left-most lane for a majority of the trip, and had ~10 phantom braking occurrences each way. It seemed to think the shadow of a car in the adjacent lane (where the shadow fell well into my lane) was something that needed to be avoided.

It also doesn't infrequently highlight a car in an adjacent lane (or even exiting the freeway) as the lead car and slam on the brakes.

I have follow distance set to 7 and it still slams the brakes way later than comfortable.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#217

Post by dotancohen »

jjcm wrote: post #66
dotancohen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I've tried and failed to reproduce this on my Model 3. I've driven next to trucks, motorcycles, under overpasses, under very-low overpasses, near pedestrians, and even passed camels and horses on the side of the road. No phantom braking. That said, when using the lane-assist, I do prefer to keep my foot on the accelerator pedal anyway. To increase range, I try not to get into regen at all unless…

If the accelerator pressed at all, it wont break automatically. Not sure if you're pressing it or just hovering on it, but that might be why.

That's why I mentioned that I've tried to reproduce the issue. I would deliberately let the computer handle speed even though I personally prefer to, so that I could experience the phantom braking firsthand.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#218

Post by kitsune_ »

bink wrote: post #140
silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

This sounds dangerous enough that I'd reconsider even driving the vehicle. I have a 2019 model 3 and I've experienced phantom braking twice. Both times I was on the highway with autopilot enabled and was passing a truck that cast a shadow over my lane. After the first experience I refused to even use autopilot for months afterwards. Just recently I was driving in the right lane of a suburban road (with no assisted dr…

It boggles my mind that people would continue to use a car that randomly breaks without their input.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#219

Post by throwaway894345 »

ericbarrett wrote: post #168
saiya-jin wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...

My first thought was, what if it's a sheriff, police officer, or state patrol? Now you've got a couple nights in the county lockup, a reckless driving charge (this can be a misdemeanor or felony depending on the severity), and $thousands in towing and impound fees.

I don't think abrupt braking constitutes reckless driving (maybe it varies by location), and it seems like it would be pretty easy to fight by claiming you saw a deer/etc in the road. If the cop says he didn't see it, you respond with some variation of "unsurprising because you were following me too closely to see anything else". Of course, none of this absolves Tesla from fixing their software.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#220

Post by dotancohen »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #201
dotancohen wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For what it's worth, I've tried and failed to reproduce this on my Model 3. I've driven next to trucks, motorcycles, under overpasses, under very-low overpasses, near pedestrians, and even passed camels and horses on the side of the road. No phantom braking. That said, when using the lane-assist, I do prefer to keep my foot on the accelerator pedal anyway. To increase range, I try not to get into regen at all unless…

Cool. Adding "are they trying to reproduce an Autopilot bug they read about online?" to the list of thoughts I have when encountering a Tesla on the road.

That's actually pretty funny. The Tesla is definitely a different type of car.
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