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Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

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Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Besides the plows and grit, this CBC article claims the paint they choose has something to do with it: > Most of the paint is environmentally friendly but being water-based, it rarely lasts more than a year, especially on the province's busiest roads and highways. > "The paint used for highway striping eventually wears down as a result of the wear and tear from vehicle traffic as well as the effects of necessary wint…

You can be even more "environmentally friendly" by doing away with the markings, or even the paving... The markings here seem to be some sort of dense plastic material and don't wear much.

> The markings here seem to be some sort of dense plastic material and don't wear much.

I think those markings might be the epoxy based "golden oatmeal" this article mentions (https://vancouversun.com/news/local-news/b-c-hunts-for-a-dur...) Durable but expensive.

> Meanwhile, the province does have an alternative it has been using on roads where visibility, geography and weather make for dangerous conditions, such as parts of the Coquihalla Highway. Crews grind out a line-sized trench in the pavement and pour a clumpy epoxy-plastic paint nicknamed “golden oatmeal” that bonds to the asphalt using the same material as dentures. Because it sits just below the rest of the pavement, it better withstands wear. “The problem is to do that is extremely cost prohibitive,” said Stone. “It’s very pricey.”

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

I’m convinced they ditched radar because they were having big supply chain constraints with radar, and then Musk convinced himself that Machine Vision with AI is the path forward anyway and decided to rip the bandaid off and address both issues at the same time. (& I really do think he believes that because he obsessed over the AI safety thing in the past in a way I think is unforced and a little silly and pretty cle…

>Vision+Radar

I would imagine that multiple systems with a majority wins type of thinking would be ideal. Would probably need another system for it to be an odd number.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#133
post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

If it often brakes hard and late to the point that people think you're brake checking them, then you shouldn't be using it. They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them. Stop being dangerous on the road. This isn't a game.

>They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them.

This is the important part. Doesn't matter what the intent was, the fact of the matter is that the people behind you nearly rear-ended you because of your car's actions. And you, as the driver, never know when you might piss off the wrong driver - brake check the wrong person and suddenly you're in trouble with someone who might not care if you say, "But my car did it, not me! Honest!".

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#134
post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

> It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them.

Honestly, it sounds to me like this technology should be made illegal until it's fixed. "Infrequently" isn't good enough, especially if it brakes as aggressively as you say. I want self driving to succeed, but Tesla's self-driving tech is just too immature to use on public roads.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#136
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mollusk not likely to give it up, unfortunately.

i think gp was referencing the hypocrisy in Musk’s demands to open source Twitter’s recommendation algorithm

they did a piss poor job of making a reference then

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have an early release Model 3 with radar. I suspect they stopped using the radar in a software update once they started releasing Model 3s without radar, as it didn't have this jerky stopping behavior before that.

Happens often on my Y, does not happen on my legacy S and X (circa 2018 and 2019) that are equipped with Continental radar front facing radar. I believe even current S and X vehicles are still getting radar installed, so Tesla is only being cheap on the 3 and Y to keep moving them at volume as a supply chain mitigation.

vehicles from 2019 being referred to as "legacy" is the most infuriating thing I've read today.

Of course no offense to OP, i've heard it referred as such by others and I know it's not literal. But it's maddening to me though that a vehicle that is still under warranty has a moniker that traditionally means end of life/support in software.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#138
post #2

How much better than a human driver does a self-driving system need to be before we as a society will accept fully autonomous vehicles? That seems like the key question which we are spending very little effort trying to understand. Until we have a national conversation about this, I suspect self-driving will be an intractable problem.

> How much better than a human driver does a self-driving system need to be before we as a society will accept fully autonomous vehicles?

If you watch the many selfdriving videos online, it is clear the current state is worse than a drunken teenager on their first week with a license.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#139
post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

>It infrequently phantom brakes

>more often brakes hard and late

>people think I'm brake-checking them

>if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable

>I've been sandwiched between an 18-wheeler and the gutter

>once you learn the quirks it is extremely predictable and robust

You're taking it better than I would be

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#140
post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

This sounds dangerous enough that I'd reconsider even driving the vehicle. I have a 2019 model 3 and I've experienced phantom braking twice. Both times I was on the highway with autopilot enabled and was passing a truck that cast a shadow over my lane. After the first experience I refused to even use autopilot for months afterwards.

Just recently I was driving in the right lane of a suburban road (with no assisted driving features enabled) and some trees on the curb cast a shadow over my lane and the car absolutely freaked out with collision warnings. Thankfully I was accelerating so it didn't force me to stop, but at this point I'm seriously considering going with another vehicle. Having the car scream at you as you're driving down the road is nerve wracking.

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