Why or how people deem "phantom braking" to be even remotely acceptable is completely beyond me. You are putting your life in the hands of a multi-ton steel box with a mind of (seemingly) its own and it "phantom braking" at highway speeds does not alarm you? In a normal world all of those cars would be immediately recalled.
Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
181–190 of 320 posts
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
> we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like with nuclear tech today). That's quite the leap. A far more reasonable statement would be 'we need someone like Ralph Nader to spearhead initiatives to regulate self driving cars to prevent the disasters we saw in automobile safety in the 1950s-1960s.'
I’d be interested in seeing if there statistics of automobile safety in the US before and after Nader, compared to the equivalent statistics in Europe. I have a suspicion that the progression in car safety is a more global phenomenon
Likely the US implicitly sets the standards for other markets since it’s easier to build one platform.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#183Earlier quoted context omitted.
>It infrequently phantom brakes >more often brakes hard and late >people think I'm brake-checking them >if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable >I've been sandwiched between an 18-wheeler and the gutter >once you learn the quirks it is extremely predictable and robust You're taking it better than I would be
It's just standard Tesla fanboy cope. The bottom line is that Tesla is shipping out alpha/beta software to the masses and relying on the masses to absorb the risks of crashing, causing accidents, dying, etc. in order for Tesla to iterate and possibly improve its software. I own an 2022 Model 3 Performance, so I'm not just talking out of my ass. Autopilot is unnerving to use. The car itself is just an appliance devoid…
The only part that matters the fanboys is the marketing. It's even apparent in the way it's haphazardly named.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
> It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. Honestly, it sounds to me like this technology should be made illegal until it's fixed. "Infrequently" isn't good enough, especially if it brakes as aggressively as you say. I want self driving to succeed, but Tesla's self-driving tech is just too immature to use on public roads.
This comes down to the actual risks. The real question is has it actually caused any accidents?
With random hard braking the question is not if but when and how often.
I'd say the question is whether we should tolerate cars with what you could call undefined behaviour. Imho we shouldn't.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#185Earlier quoted context omitted.
>They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them. This is the important part. Doesn't matter what the intent was, the fact of the matter is that the people behind you nearly rear-ended you because of your car's actions. And you, as the driver, never know when you might piss off the wrong driver - brake check the wrong person and suddenly you're in trouble with someone who might not care if yo…
I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...
In this circumstance (crashing into the back of a tesla breaking hard) you would have been the person primarily to blame. Yes tesla sells a dodgy "autopilot" that does unexpected things (and in my opinion should not be road legal until fixed), but you were tailgating to the point where you couldn’t stop in time. The car behind has to be responsible for maintaining safe separation to the car in front (under reasonable circumstances).
edit: The "you" in the above being the hypothetical driver.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
For what it's worth, I've tried and failed to reproduce this on my Model 3. I've driven next to trucks, motorcycles, under overpasses, under very-low overpasses, near pedestrians, and even passed camels and horses on the side of the road. No phantom braking. That said, when using the lane-assist, I do prefer to keep my foot on the accelerator pedal anyway. To increase range, I try not to get into regen at all unless…
I was driving to Las Vegas with my father (in my Model Y) and I was telling him, "I've never experienced this so-called phantom braking..." A literally 3 seconds later I experienced it and few times later in the next hour or so.
It's sentient
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#187An anecdote in a sea of data - My 2022 Model 3 had a pretty serious phantom braking problem until 2 or 3 software releases ago. Now it seems to be entirely resolved in my use case. For context, I drive 200-400 miles a week, 95% of which using autopilot on divided highways and well-marked two or four lane roads.
Seems like radar equipped cars had less issues and they've finally worked out some of the kinks with the vision only system.
My radar Tesla was awful for a few releases in November too.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#188This happens to me just using the adaptive cruise control, no Autopilot or FSD enabled and it's super annoying. Can happen on a completely empty road driving in a straight line.
My 2019 Subaru Crosstrek has adaptive cruise control, and i've had it hit the brakes pretty hard when there's nothing in the way. Luckily it doesn't happen often.
My Outback has never done it in over 20k miles, but a prior Chrysler vehicle warned but seemed to correct itself before engaging the brakes when going around a curve on many occasions.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#1892022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…
Brake checking is an exclusively American thing. I can’t recall anybody in Europe brake checking anybody in the 20 years I drove there, across all countries (Italy, France, Switzerland, Austria, etc), people just get out of the left lane naturally, and who cares if somebody goes faster? I will never understand this hostile tension in US roads.
Just Google video search for "brake check insert EU country" and you'll find plenty of examples.
Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
Requiring dedicated infrastructure eliminates the point of self driving cars - you might as well just build public transit infrastructure. On top of that, this won’t eliminate any of the real edge cases - humans and other cars will still violate these rules and drive or walk across these roads, at which point the AV will still need to know how to handle this novelty. These are the main reasons AV companies don’t cons…
Nothing of what I said indicates dedicated infrastructure. In fact, I don't think that would work (as you say why not I'm thinking more like expanding priority bus-lanes (if you have visited regions outside the US these are common) and ensuring there are markers that are abundantly clear for everyone and more usable for self-driving vehicles.
I mean I’d count adding lane markers as building infrastructure - and the same caveat of people disobeying them applies. Not to mention you wouldn’t be able to add dedicated lanes outside of main thoroughfares and highways.