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Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

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Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#141

Post by lin83 »

jjulius wrote: post #125
silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

>But that said, once you learn the quirks it is extremely predictable and robust. I feel like a self-driving vehicle is one of those areas where nobody should have to "learn the quirks".

It's honestly like a black mirror episode. "I have to have maintain a mental model of how my black box ML car AI will act so I don't die or kill other road users... and it can be updated daily."

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#142

Post by formerkrogemp »

All of these issues with Tesla cars and the stock still trades at 100x earnings. What dumb shit will old Musky Elon do to tank the stock price next I wonder? Is the halo of being the face of all the SpaceX and Tesla engineers' work going to fade away? Probably not.

On an unrelated note, just a friendly reminder that the Chevy Bolt is only $26k with 250 miles of range. How much is the most affordable phantom braking, Full-Self-Driving-driver-should-always-pay-attention, pedestrian-squishing Tesla again? Model 3 Rear-Wheel Drive: $44,990 to $46,990. Huh.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#143

Post by oh_sigh »

jjulius wrote: post #125
silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

>But that said, once you learn the quirks it is extremely predictable and robust. I feel like a self-driving vehicle is one of those areas where nobody should have to "learn the quirks".

But Autopilot is not really a self driving vehicle though - it's basically just lane keeping + adaptive cruise control. It will gladly blow through a stop sign or a red light, it can't change lanes, or make turns, or do any other completely normal driving things that one would expect from a self driving car.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#144

Post by raylad »

dburkland wrote: post #108
toomuchtodo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can't speak for OP, but I'm supposed to be paying attention at all times while autopilot is enabled; as soon as I feel the vehicle may phantom brake, I apply more pressure to the accelerator to maintain speed. I believe the NHTSA is going to require Tesla retrofit radar on all vehicles to mitigate their Tesla Vision functionality deficiency. (submitted lengthy dash cam videos and accelerometer data to the NHTSA as a…

My vision-based Tesla rarely if ever experiences phantom braking unlike my previous radar-equipped Model 3 (it was pretty common in 2018 / 2019).

All Teslas are "vision-based" now. They no longer use the RADAR even in cars that have it.

This is probably so they can have only one software build rather than supporting one with and one without RADAR. And also so that they can say the RADAR isn't needed anyway.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#145

Post by loceng »

silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

I'm surprised a debug button isn't already in existence? Maybe it's there if you're a beta tester?

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#146

Post by [deleted] »

jeroenhd wrote: post #134
silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

> It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. Honestly, it sounds to me like this technology should be made illegal until it's fixed. "Infrequently" isn't good enough, especially if it brakes as aggressively as you say. I want self driving to succeed, but Tesla's self-driving tech is just too immature to use on public roads.

[deleted]

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#147

Post by namdnay »

Teever wrote: post #69
mensetmanusman wrote: post #59

They should give drivers a simple way to notify Tesla exactly when phantom breaking happens. E.g. use the mic and when Tesla users say ‘Tesla phantom’ it would send the flagged data to a central repository to train against. Regardless of your feelings towards Tesla, we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like…

> we need someone to figure out safe self driving before the effort is halted and humanity has to wait a century before a new generation tries again (like with nuclear tech today). That's quite the leap. A far more reasonable statement would be 'we need someone like Ralph Nader to spearhead initiatives to regulate self driving cars to prevent the disasters we saw in automobile safety in the 1950s-1960s.'

I’d be interested in seeing if there statistics of automobile safety in the US before and after Nader, compared to the equivalent statistics in Europe. I have a suspicion that the progression in car safety is a more global phenomenon

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#148

Post by ryanklee »

mberning wrote: post #17

Most of the “driver aids” available today have the competency of a drunk or highly inexperienced driver. Just maintaining lane is a problem for all the systems I have had the opportunity to try. They are easily flummoxed by worn or moved lane lines (like you would see in a construction area). I view it as a definite upgrade over traditional cruise control, but it’s so far away from self driving it’s laughable to even…

My 2018 Honda Civic variable speed control was excellent. Its lane assistance was crap. My 2022 Honda Civic variable speed control is even better, and the lane assistance is outstanding. The thing basically drives itself in 90% of the conditions I find myself in.

The experience has convinced me that iteration is going to get us to where we want to be given moderate timelines even if Tesla goes away, which, I wish they would because, like everything Musk is involved in, it's a dramatic shit show.

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#149

Post by 0des »

jjulius wrote: post #125
silax wrote: post #113

2022 Model Y with FSD. I use Autopilot 50+ miles a day, and use it 98% of the way on trips from San Diego to SF. It infrequently phantom brakes, and more often brakes hard and late and sometimes people think I'm brake-checking them. It also is annoying slow to recover back to cruise speed from a slow down. Also if you're in the right lane when the two right lanes merge- it is totally unreliable, I've been sandwiched…

>But that said, once you learn the quirks it is extremely predictable and robust. I feel like a self-driving vehicle is one of those areas where nobody should have to "learn the quirks".

I guess the rest of us drivers have to "learn the quirks" the hard way?

Re: Tesla’s ‘phantom braking’ problem is getting worse

#150

Post by saiya-jin »

jjulius wrote: post #133
yupper32 wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it often brakes hard and late to the point that people think you're brake checking them, then you shouldn't be using it. They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them. Stop being dangerous on the road. This isn't a game.

>They don't think you're brake checking them, you ARE brake checking them. This is the important part. Doesn't matter what the intent was, the fact of the matter is that the people behind you nearly rear-ended you because of your car's actions. And you, as the driver, never know when you might piss off the wrong driver - brake check the wrong person and suddenly you're in trouble with someone who might not care if yo…

I would do pretty bad things to any person who would severely harm or kill my kids for example, and no amount of blaming car electronics or recent update would change that...
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