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Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

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Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#121

Post by chugger »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #115
anigbrowl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone That kind of market calculus made sense before the recession. Now the value proposition has changed, and while people may still buy newer hardware (such as tablets) they expect better value from their tech purchasing because increasing wealth is no longer a given. Also, people are more suspicious of corporations in general, especially ones…

I bought an Apple 3G new in August 2009, after the 3GS came out and it felt like obsolete junk with the next major iOS upgrade, long before the contract expired. I certainly did not feel like I was treated like a king. I was certainly not the only one: http://appletoolbox.com/2010/06/iphone-3g-slow-after-ios-4-0... None of the suggestions worked. I have a Motorola Atrix now.

This story Sounds like total BS to me coming from a Google employee.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#122

Post by orangecat »

rayiner wrote: post #78
untog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

taking the time to run great on hardware of that capability pays huge dividends in the phone world. It really won't though, that's the problem. The Nexus One is nearly two years old. It's somewhat of an anomaly because it'll have a higher than average number of off-contract purchases, but in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone. Two year old phones just aren't that important. Spe…

Supporting a two year old phone might be important to say X% of users, but I'd argue that Android phones include features that are important to Y% My girlfriend cares way more that her 3GS runs iOS5 than she does that it doesn't have a 4.5" screen.

What does iOS 5 do that she actually needs? My nontechnical friend anecdote is the opposite: she likes the big screen and Swype on the Evo, and doesn't care what OS point version it's running.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#123

Post by keeperofdakeys »

obtino wrote: post #116
Xuzz wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(Encrypted and then compressed, however, so it's essentially the same as the uncompressed size.)

Just to clarify what you're saying here: Are you saying that simply because a file is encrypted, that it'd be equivalent to the uncompressed size? There are a fair few modes of encryption (such as CFB, OFB and CTS) out there which ensure that the encrypted data is the same size as the input data. Even if Apple uses a mode which requires padding, the padding should not be so large as to increase the size of the iOS im…

Here is a small test:

  dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/file count=50k bs=100 # create 5MB file of zero
  aes -e -f file -o file2 -p asdfasdf # create aes encrypted version of the file
  tar -czf file.tar.gz file # compress file
  tar -czf file2.tar.gz file2 # compress encrypted file
  du -sh file* # check size of all files
Here is the output I got:

  4.9M	file
  5.0M	file2
  8.0K	file.tar.gz
  5.0M	file2.tar.gz
These results pretty much speak for themselves. Just think of it this way, compression works by finding patterns (like every byte is zero), and only storing the patterns. If the encrypted data has patterns, then the plain text could more easily be found.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#124

Post by stephenr »

gbog wrote: post #120
anigbrowl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone That kind of market calculus made sense before the recession. Now the value proposition has changed, and while people may still buy newer hardware (such as tablets) they expect better value from their tech purchasing because increasing wealth is no longer a given. Also, people are more suspicious of corporations in general, especially ones…

I use an IPod and I don't feel treated as a King, more like a pigeon: It is my gadget, with my music in it, and I am being forced to use a software I dislike (iTunes) which don't even work on my OS of choice. You have a weird view on how Kings are treated, or on Apple itself.

You chose to buy an iPod. If you don't like the way it works, buy a different device.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#125

Post by shinratdr »

rsheridan6 wrote: post #115
anigbrowl wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone That kind of market calculus made sense before the recession. Now the value proposition has changed, and while people may still buy newer hardware (such as tablets) they expect better value from their tech purchasing because increasing wealth is no longer a given. Also, people are more suspicious of corporations in general, especially ones…

I bought an Apple 3G new in August 2009, after the 3GS came out and it felt like obsolete junk with the next major iOS upgrade, long before the contract expired. I certainly did not feel like I was treated like a king. I was certainly not the only one: http://appletoolbox.com/2010/06/iphone-3g-slow-after-ios-4-0... None of the suggestions worked. I have a Motorola Atrix now.

Nobody is denying the way 3G users got screwed. I should know, I'm still paying out a contract for my 3G which was boxed up long ago and replaced with a 4. However this situation didn't repeat itself with the 3GS & iOS 5. They learned from that and corrected it, especially now that they are still selling it. iOS 5 runs beautifully on the 3GS.

Point being, all of the Android phones released around the original iPhone and iPhone 3G have most definitely been cut off. However, the Nexus One is newer than the 3GS, not to mention the benchmark model for that generation of Android device, and it has already been cut off.

This is separate from the 3G issue which was bad, but is in the past at this point. It's also arguable that even slow 3G users are better off than users of the same era stuck with Android 1.5/1.6. Hell, just throw ultrasn0w on your 3G and it becomes perfectly usable again.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#126

Post by DHowett »

keeperofdakeys wrote: post #123
obtino wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify what you're saying here: Are you saying that simply because a file is encrypted, that it'd be equivalent to the uncompressed size? There are a fair few modes of encryption (such as CFB, OFB and CTS) out there which ensure that the encrypted data is the same size as the input data. Even if Apple uses a mode which requires padding, the padding should not be so large as to increase the size of the iOS im…

Here is a small test: dd if=/dev/zero of=/tmp/file count=50k bs=100 # create 5MB file of zero aes -e -f file -o file2 -p asdfasdf # create aes encrypted version of the file tar -czf file.tar.gz file # compress file tar -czf file2.tar.gz file2 # compress encrypted file du -sh file* # check size of all files Here is the output I got: 4.9M file 5.0M file2 8.0K file.tar.gz 5.0M file2.tar.gz These results pretty much spea…

(You know you don't have to use tar for a single file, and can just gzip it outright, right? :P)

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#127

Post by sixcorners »

tesseract wrote: post #119
obtino wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to clarify what you're saying here: Are you saying that simply because a file is encrypted, that it'd be equivalent to the uncompressed size? There are a fair few modes of encryption (such as CFB, OFB and CTS) out there which ensure that the encrypted data is the same size as the input data. Even if Apple uses a mode which requires padding, the padding should not be so large as to increase the size of the iOS im…

Encrypted data is not very compressible. Compression algorithms exploit statistical regularities in the bitstream, whereas the whole point of encrypting something is to get a result with no statistical regularity whatsoever. If you compress first and then encrypt, you can then get smaller file sizes than the input, because the compression algorithm can work on the plaintext.

And iOS doesn't do that?

Let me get this conversation straight.. Someone says that it's strange that android is so large. Someone else says iOS is big too. Then someone comes in to say that they are not large, they just suck at getting the compress/encrypt issue right. No one, other than obtino, thinks that it was simply a mistake that Xuzz put 'then' in his/her post?

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#128

Post by Xuzz »

sixcorners wrote: post #127
tesseract wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Encrypted data is not very compressible. Compression algorithms exploit statistical regularities in the bitstream, whereas the whole point of encrypting something is to get a result with no statistical regularity whatsoever. If you compress first and then encrypt, you can then get smaller file sizes than the input, because the compression algorithm can work on the plaintext.

And iOS doesn't do that? Let me get this conversation straight.. Someone says that it's strange that android is so large. Someone else says iOS is big too. Then someone comes in to say that they are not large, they just suck at getting the compress/encrypt issue right. No one, other than obtino, thinks that it was simply a mistake that Xuzz put 'then' in his/her post?

It's compressed after encryption, so the effects of the compression is minimal. I believe that my post was correct: due to the effects of the encryption, the compression is almost useless, rendering the large iOS file size essentially equivalent to the size when installed to disk. That's all.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#129

Post by lockeandkey »

anigbrowl wrote: post #56
untog wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

taking the time to run great on hardware of that capability pays huge dividends in the phone world. It really won't though, that's the problem. The Nexus One is nearly two years old. It's somewhat of an anomaly because it'll have a higher than average number of off-contract purchases, but in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone. Two year old phones just aren't that important. Spe…

in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone That kind of market calculus made sense before the recession. Now the value proposition has changed, and while people may still buy newer hardware (such as tablets) they expect better value from their tech purchasing because increasing wealth is no longer a given. Also, people are more suspicious of corporations in general, especially ones…

Getting a new phone every two years is unsustainable, not to mention the problem with securing the necessary rare earth metals to continue building them.

I appreciate you acknowledging the products ending up in a landfill.

We really need to change the way we do things not just because of the recession but because it is entirely unsustainable.

I had hope google would recognize this problem but it seems they are more interested in the bottom line.

Re: Google says Nexus One too old for Android 4.0

#130

Post by lockeandkey »

untog wrote: post #18
ChuckMcM wrote: post #11

I've always wondered about this, especially in embedded devices. Amongst the many mistakes Microsoft made with Vista, first and foremost was allowing the bloat to get so bad that it wouldn't run at all on machines that ran XP quite happily. Later Windows 7 could actually run on those old XP machines with many, if not most, of the features that Vista bragged about. So here we have Google, arguably a company which can…

taking the time to run great on hardware of that capability pays huge dividends in the phone world. It really won't though, that's the problem. The Nexus One is nearly two years old. It's somewhat of an anomaly because it'll have a higher than average number of off-contract purchases, but in general once a person's contact has run for two years they get a new phone. Two year old phones just aren't that important. Spe…

This is just simply not sustainable. Everyone cannot get a new phone every two years indefinitely.
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