Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

usatoday.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

301–310 of 612 posts

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#301

Post by olyjohn »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #190
jvm wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling online without negotiated price is a big change. That should make the dealerships really uncomfortable in the long run… he's kind of saying "oh the dealerships could rent out Mustangs" but is that actually realistic?

Diplomacy is the art of saying “good dog” until you make it to the rock. Ford is learning what Tesla knew from the start: dealership interests aren’t aligned with EV manufacturers. There’s very little service revenue, and dealers are incentivized to add “market adjustments” to vehicles (which Ford dealers have been doing) creating a poor customer experience. Ford has existing dealerships and is going to have a heck o…

$3k in maintenance costs for 400,000km? I call bull shit. In Tesla tire sizes, you're looking at $1000 for a cheap ass set of tires. Certainly not gonna last 100,000 miles either.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#302

Post by m348e912 »

medler wrote: post #82

This article takes an off-the-cuff comment from the CEO of Ford and reads too much into it IMO. He wasn’t saying dealerships are going away; he was actually saying the opposite. The point he was making was that Ford is going to adopt some of Tesla’s practices while using the dealership network to compete with them. Here’s the quote with more context: “I believe for retail, we have to -- it's kind of like what happene…

>>Target could have gone away, but they didn't. They bolted on an e-commerce platform and then they used their physical store to add groceries and return -- make returns really much easier than Amazon.

I know this is off-topic, but the easiest return I ever made was an amazon return. I went through the return process on amazon's website and was given a QR code which took a few mins. I drove to the nearest Kohls, walked to the amazon kiosk, showed the QR code to the employee, and handed over the return. Took all of 30 seconds in store.

Anyway, back on topic. A hybrid model makes sense for Ford to compete, and it is a lot like Best Buy/Target in many respects. However dealers have made a living for a long time being the middle-men, I wonder how they will deal with additional competition. Best buy has a problem where people look at the product at the store then end up buying online, I could see people taking test drives and then ordering from the Ford website. Although I think the dealer will arrange commission if that happens.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#303

Post by __d »

grogenaut wrote: post #268
reaperducer wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sounds great pre pandemic, but these days the indies can't get parts the way the dealers can. Heck, the dealers even have a hard time getting parts.

Right now sure... pay who you have to if you need the part. But supply issues will get solved, this is a temp situation. I'm solving the interim by having 4 vehicles + mass transit + wfh.

> I'm solving the interim by having 4 vehicles + mass transit + wfh.

Is that, maybe, a little bit ... overkill? Quadruple redundancy, plus a failover, plus reduced demand. Phew!

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#304

Post by IfOnlyYouKnew »

Alupis wrote: post #127
paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

When I see "No Haggle, Fixed-Price, Online Only", I think "Rip Off", and I can't be the only one. It's not that I enjoy haggling with car salesmen, walking out the door and getting hunted down in the parking lot like an animal... I don't... in fact I hate it. But at the end of the day I get a deal I'm satisfied and comfortable with - and it's always below MSRP - far below. I think what we're seeing here is a combinat…

> the younger generation's fear of conflict (a negotiation is an adversarial conflict)

The younger generation doesn't necessarily fear conflict. Just look at how it's winning the conflict about conflict against the older generation.

They (we) want to reduce these kinds of negotiation because they give an economic advantage for entirely arbitrary reasons: someone getting a car cheaper because they negotiated harder or getting a better job offer because their trust fund allows them to walk away with ease does in no way benefit society. Whatever they save, someone else has to pay extra to make the system work for the dealerships.

Worse, the ability to negotiate is not some random variable. It's tied to aggressiveness and a sense of entitlement. It's a lifelong rebate for bullies that practiced that sort of thing by stealing younger kids' lunch money. And the only reason it has survived as long as it has is because that happens to be the demographic car salesmen also hail from.

Worst, it isn't even just about someone's ability to assert themselves: a salesman may well react entirely different to the same exact words and behavior based on criteria that would invoke laws against discrimination in other cases. I remember a number of stories of black homeowners being quoted 30 % when having their homes' resale value assessed. Don't remember seeing any tests for car sales, but I'd be surprised if it didn't replicate there: be a white broad-shouldered tall good-looking man and your lowballing makes you a strong opponent. Lack any of those criteria and it's considered an insult to the profession and you get the cold shoulder.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#305

Post by toomuchtodo »

olyjohn wrote: post #301
toomuchtodo wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diplomacy is the art of saying “good dog” until you make it to the rock. Ford is learning what Tesla knew from the start: dealership interests aren’t aligned with EV manufacturers. There’s very little service revenue, and dealers are incentivized to add “market adjustments” to vehicles (which Ford dealers have been doing) creating a poor customer experience. Ford has existing dealerships and is going to have a heck o…

$3k in maintenance costs for 400,000km? I call bull shit. In Tesla tire sizes, you're looking at $1000 for a cheap ass set of tires. Certainly not gonna last 100,000 miles either.

Specifically says not including tires in the Twitter post.

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#306

Post by vanshg »

rootusrootus wrote: post #86
kcb wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Tesla may not be the future of EVs Based on what metric? I have a hard time looking at Tesla's sales, revenue, profit, production capacity growth and not thinking they will continue to be a leader in EVs far into the future.

Tesla can sell you a mid-size sedan or a CUV, ignoring the relatively small niche occupied by the S and X. Ford competes directly with the Y, and also in an entirely new segment Tesla does not compete in -- the pickup. Chevy has the pickup coming, and already competes in the affordable compact car segment (27K MSRP for a Bolt? That's getting into 'excellent value' territory) that Tesla does not compete in. GM also ha…

Model S is aging in what aspect? It was just refreshed. Do you want change for the sake of change?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#307

Post by [deleted] »

jvm wrote: post #157
medler wrote: post #82

This article takes an off-the-cuff comment from the CEO of Ford and reads too much into it IMO. He wasn’t saying dealerships are going away; he was actually saying the opposite. The point he was making was that Ford is going to adopt some of Tesla’s practices while using the dealership network to compete with them. Here’s the quote with more context: “I believe for retail, we have to -- it's kind of like what happene…

Selling online without negotiated price is a big change. That should make the dealerships really uncomfortable in the long run… he's kind of saying "oh the dealerships could rent out Mustangs" but is that actually realistic?

[deleted]

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#309

Post by __d »

Alupis wrote: post #127
paxys wrote: post #39

A lot has been said about the dealership model in the last few years, and the almost universal consensus is that it is an unnecessary and predatory industry and all auto makers should just sell cars directly like Tesla does. That being said, is there any counterpoint to this view? Are there any benefits that dealerships offer today over direct sales? What would we lose if we got rid of every dealership? If there is t…

When I see "No Haggle, Fixed-Price, Online Only", I think "Rip Off", and I can't be the only one. It's not that I enjoy haggling with car salesmen, walking out the door and getting hunted down in the parking lot like an animal... I don't... in fact I hate it. But at the end of the day I get a deal I'm satisfied and comfortable with - and it's always below MSRP - far below. I think what we're seeing here is a combinat…

In theory, if manufacturers charge an inflated MSRP, a competitor who doesn't will get the sale instead.

In practice ... well, maybe everyone makes more money if no-one undercuts each other too much. Is it collusion/price-fixing/anti-competitive? Or is it just good business?

Re: Ford CEO says EVs will be sold 100% online with nonnegotiable price

#310

Post by travisgriggs »

Corwin Ford came into our area, put all of the other dealers out of business over the last 10 years and hold forth with terrible prices and service. I avoid them at all cost.

The dealer model (not just for cars) may have been a “good thing” once upon a time. When I talk to older generations, they always seem taken with the idea of a “good dealer”, someone to “take care of you.” But by and large (there are some exceptions), dealer model seems to have generally become less mutually beneficiary. In most domains, I loathe them.

Post reply on HN