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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#631

Post by hahaxdxd123 »

noduerme wrote: post #601
akavi wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument that "efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division" isn't totally without merit. As an America-born Indian-American, I honestly don't know what my caste is beyond knowing I'm not Brahmin (I didn't do the string ceremony some of my childhood family friends did), and have basically zero idea of how I'd identify someone else's caste. I imagine that that'…

>> Educating people like me about that would suddenly create the ability for them to identify a difference that they wouldn't have noticed before. This seemingly small insight goes miles toward explaining the current American obsession with racial and gender identity. Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days, which is why once people are told they're being victimized and di…

> Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days

Yeah yea, tell that to the people who "ching chong" me whenever I leave the liberal coasts.

Incredible how you people paint one of America's greatest strengths, one that few other countries possess - the willingness to speak about racial problems and create a real _home_ for talented immigrants - as a bad thing. There's a reason people like Jenson Huang and Satya Nadella are not in France, for example.

The "American obsession with racial and gender identity" is a symptom of our desire for a better society and country, unlike the unobsessed French, 22.7% of whom are unwilling to live next to non-white neighbors[1].

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#632

Post by AYBABTME »

ZoomerCretin wrote: post #622
noduerme wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> Educating people like me about that would suddenly create the ability for them to identify a difference that they wouldn't have noticed before. This seemingly small insight goes miles toward explaining the current American obsession with racial and gender identity. Gender/racial/age discrimination are not surface-level obvious in America these days, which is why once people are told they're being victimized and di…

> Racism isn't real anymore, except for being a manufactured socio-political construct to create (D) voters How sheltered are you that you believe this? EDIT: Because calling you sheltered for your ignorance of racism isn't enough: You're claiming that people who think they're experiencing racism are simply primed to view negative interactions as racism, raising their sensitivity and lowering their specificity of rac…

Please abstain from ad-hominem.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#633

Post by chowells »

Manuel_D wrote: post #594
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Male nurses not being as prevalent is definitely cited often as an example of sexism in my circles.

Unless they can back up those claims with evidence, like male nurse resumes receiving fewer callbacks than identical women's resumes, then there's no basis to their claims.

Nope. That's exactly my point. The fact that they aren't somewhere around 50% is sufficient to show it. Filtering does not happen solely at the interview. It happens at hundreds or thousands of steps along the way. It's a systemic problem.

Go ahead, do your study. You'd probably find that most hospitals have a slight preference for male nurses as they're trying to increase their diversity for all the practical benefits it brings. (Yes, diversity has a lot of practical benefits. Having people with a lot of different backgrounds around significantly improves the odds of having someone around who can successfully interact with a person no one else can.)

So if hospitals, theoretically, have a slight preference for male nurses in hiring right now... Why are they so uncommon? Because there are fewer candidates.

Hiring isn't "the problem". No one thing is "the problem". There's no bad guy to blame. No evil cabal. You don't need to get upset every time someone points out a systemic bias.

You aren't being accused of anything. You aren't the bad guy. But it would be nice if you acknowledged things are a bit out of whack, and helped to reduce the skew in the next generation. You don't need to fix it. It's enough to occasionally point out things could be better.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#634

Post by harry8 »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #541
anonymousab wrote: post #489

> After Gupta posted a link in the email group to a petition to reinstate the talk, respondents argued that caste discrimination does not exist, that caste is not a thing in the United States, and that efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division. > Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative a…

> Others said people from marginalized castes lack the education to properly interpret Hindu scriptures around castes. "If you're one of them , you're too ignorant to understand why we're right". Absolutely repulsive.

Ok my reaction too but we should temper it in that we're hearing someone reporting what someone reported that they heard. It could be utterly baseless, it could be missing a load of context, it could be distorted beyond reason.

"Others said..." Also a them kinda deal right there.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#635

Post by mr_toad »

QuarterReptile wrote: post #516
pessimizer wrote: post #478

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your point here is unintelligible for me.

I was trying to show by example that grandparent's definition of sexism is ridiculously expansive to the point of choking out all other dimensions of life. I chose them as two things that don't often get cited as evidence of sexism (though mechanic isn't so dirty a job, and isn't dangerous at all. I have more personal awareness if mechanics, so that's what I chose.)

> I was trying to show by example that grandparent's definition of sexism is ridiculously expansive to the point of choking out all other dimensions of life.

What makes you think it isn’t?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#636

Post by vkou »

zajio1am wrote: post #390
alex_smart wrote: post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Usually you know someone's caste from their last name. I am someone who was not given a caste-based last name because my parents were influenced by a regional movement against caste. (I didn't even have a last name to begin with but eventually added a non caste-based one to avoid visa issues.) Whenever I traveled by train and chatted up with a co-passenger, almost surely they would ask my name and would never be sati…

So why people (specifically immigrants in other countries) just do not change their last name to ones associated with higher caste?

For the same reason that I, a white English-speaking person, am not going to be able to fool a British old-money old-boys club that I have the same cultural background that they do.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#637

Post by the_only_law »

alex_smart wrote: post #204
Vaslo wrote: post #65

Question from a layman. How does one know that someone is from another caste? If I was someone from India, how would I know what caste my fellow Indian is from? Is there some kind of code? Or where you are from?

Usually you know someone's caste from their last name. I am someone who was not given a caste-based last name because my parents were influenced by a regional movement against caste. (I didn't even have a last name to begin with but eventually added a non caste-based one to avoid visa issues.) Whenever I traveled by train and chatted up with a co-passenger, almost surely they would ask my name and would never be sati…

> Whenever I traveled by train and chatted up with a co-passenger, almost surely they would ask my name and would never be satisfied with just knowing my first name.

What happens of they find out you’re a lower caste, so they just stop talking to you, talk down to you, etc.?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#638

Post by ZoomerCretin »

AYBABTME wrote: post #632
ZoomerCretin wrote: post #622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Racism isn't real anymore, except for being a manufactured socio-political construct to create (D) voters How sheltered are you that you believe this? EDIT: Because calling you sheltered for your ignorance of racism isn't enough: You're claiming that people who think they're experiencing racism are simply primed to view negative interactions as racism, raising their sensitivity and lowering their specificity of rac…

Please abstain from ad-hominem.

Interesting that OP can attack whole classes of people from an obviously privileged point of view, yet a mild but directed criticism of his ignorance is considered off-limits.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#639

Post by bobthechef »

pmoriarty wrote: post #597
whack wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the brown-eye-blue-eye experiment that a teacher did with her students. Everyone already knew the color of their eye, but no one gave it much significance. But as soon as the teacher started talking about the socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, students immediately divided themselves and started fighting over eye color. Never underestimate people's ability to segregate themselves using what…

"as soon as the teacher started talking about the socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, students immediately divided themselves and started fighting over eye color" It wasn't the teacher talking about socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, but explicitly telling the children that blue-eyed kids were better than brown-eyed kids. So it wasn't just consciousness of differences, but explicitly telling…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#640

Post by ajross »

noduerme wrote: post #613
ajross wrote: post #553

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an America-born white hippie, though... I have a hard time seeing an argument like that and not equating it with attempts to suppress discussion of racial equality issues here at home[1]. The fact that you don't experience discrimination doesn't mean that no one does. And you should know if people do, and why. Nothing gets better if the skeletons stay in the closet, basically. It's no different for caste awareness…

It's always the white folks who claim this. The often false assumption that people who are non-white must be being discriminated against and that being colorblind is not enough, etc., is just a new version of the "white man's burden." It's neocolonialism dressed up as empathy. Most people want to be treated as just... people . Not handled with kid gloves or lumped into a racial group and having all kinds of assumptio…

> The often false assumption that people who are non-white must be being discriminated against and that being colorblind is not enough, etc., is just a new version of the "white man's burden."

I dunno, man. I just think that, y'know, sometimes discrimination really does happen and I'd like to know when it does. That way I can try and fix it. Not everything is a cult. Most of us are trying to help.

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