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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#611

Post by travisgriggs »

akavi wrote: post #502
anonymousab wrote: post #489

> After Gupta posted a link in the email group to a petition to reinstate the talk, respondents argued that caste discrimination does not exist, that caste is not a thing in the United States, and that efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division. > Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative a…

I think the argument that "efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division" isn't totally without merit. As an America-born Indian-American, I honestly don't know what my caste is beyond knowing I'm not Brahmin (I didn't do the string ceremony some of my childhood family friends did), and have basically zero idea of how I'd identify someone else's caste. I imagine that that'…

50 points for reference to "star-bellied sneetches effect." I use it to describe the political/social duopoly in the US. We go round and round. Someone else makes money.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#612

Post by l33t2328 »

jbnorth wrote: post #595
trhway wrote: post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no idea at all what my caste is you're an American citizen, by many measures the best caste out there :)

Unless you’re a woman. Or minority. Or go to school. Or go shopping. Or go to the movies.

Women and minorities have it pretty good here, so I hope you’re joking.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#613

Post by noduerme »

ajross wrote: post #553
akavi wrote: post #502

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the argument that "efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division" isn't totally without merit. As an America-born Indian-American, I honestly don't know what my caste is beyond knowing I'm not Brahmin (I didn't do the string ceremony some of my childhood family friends did), and have basically zero idea of how I'd identify someone else's caste. I imagine that that'…

As an America-born white hippie, though... I have a hard time seeing an argument like that and not equating it with attempts to suppress discussion of racial equality issues here at home[1]. The fact that you don't experience discrimination doesn't mean that no one does. And you should know if people do, and why. Nothing gets better if the skeletons stay in the closet, basically. It's no different for caste awareness…

It's always the white folks who claim this. The often false assumption that people who are non-white must be being discriminated against and that being colorblind is not enough, etc., is just a new version of the "white man's burden." It's neocolonialism dressed up as empathy. Most people want to be treated as just... people. Not handled with kid gloves or lumped into a racial group and having all kinds of assumptions made about them based on their skin color, regardless of whether you think those assumptions are supposed to help them. They don't help.

The Portland white woke spiel goes like this: Latinos are non-white, therefore they're being discriminated against, this therefore shapes their lived experience, therefore they must support progressive economics and want to vote Democrat.

Except people don't want to spend their life feeling discriminated against; they want to move up in society. They don't want to base their identity on your exoticized idea of their group suffering.

So sure: Introduce new ways that people can feel like they've been discriminated against. That's the way it's done! More and more identity groups! Caste, why not? Hey, we can even celebrate it.

This white guilt has done nothing but create more and more disharmony and disunity in a country that was founded on being a melting pot and where civil rights and equal rights were fought for, and won.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#614

Post by throw93 »

india_usa wrote: post #570

Quoted post unavailable.

>> There is no caste discrimination. PERIOD. I have witnessed up close.

How can you be so certain, especially when you’re mentioning “Dalits” as 3rd person? “Trust me” is not a source.

>> For several generations Dalits enjoy a superior position

Literally not true. https://m.timesofindia.com/india/presence-of-scs-sts-in-govt...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#615

Post by hndamien »

whack wrote: post #559
gomoboo wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this just relying on security through obscurity? The knowledge is already out there for anyone wishing to seek it. Why pretend it doesn’t exist? For what it’s worth, I am not of Indian descent.

Take a look at the brown-eye-blue-eye experiment that a teacher did with her students. Everyone already knew the color of their eye, but no one gave it much significance. But as soon as the teacher started talking about the socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, students immediately divided themselves and started fighting over eye color. Never underestimate people's ability to segregate themselves using what…

I was shocked at how quickly divided society became over vaccinated/unvaccinated.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#616

Post by mr_toad »

anonymousab wrote: post #489

> After Gupta posted a link in the email group to a petition to reinstate the talk, respondents argued that caste discrimination does not exist, that caste is not a thing in the United States, and that efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division. > Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative a…

>> > Others said people from marginalized castes lack the education to properly interpret Hindu scriptures around castes.

The term gaslighting gets thrown around a lot these days, but…

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#617

Post by jfrbfbreudh »

pmoriarty wrote: post #597
whack wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look at the brown-eye-blue-eye experiment that a teacher did with her students. Everyone already knew the color of their eye, but no one gave it much significance. But as soon as the teacher started talking about the socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, students immediately divided themselves and started fighting over eye color. Never underestimate people's ability to segregate themselves using what…

"as soon as the teacher started talking about the socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, students immediately divided themselves and started fighting over eye color" It wasn't the teacher talking about socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, but explicitly telling the children that blue-eyed kids were better than brown-eyed kids. So it wasn't just consciousness of differences, but explicitly telling…

> It wasn't the teacher talking about socioeconomic-status associated with eye color, but explicitly telling the children that blue-eyed kids were better than brown-eyed kids.

Amazingly, the teacher had done the exact opposite and told the brown-eyed students that they were the smarter group. Now, is that your bias showing?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#618

Post by michaelmrose »

skyde wrote: post #523
michaelmrose wrote: post #518

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no such thing as reverse discrimination it's a purely content free term. Discrimination is merely discrimination with the insertion of the word reverse having no additional meaning. It's normal for any system which creates an incentive to hire minorities to still be so biased in favor of white dudes that you are still much better off being a white dude. Basically for every minority that wouldn't have made it…

You are basically saying its ok for a white dude from a family of homeless to be doubly discriminated (1- because he does have money to go to college 2- because college reserve seat for non-white people) And you justify it because statistically if you take a random white people and a random black people the black person would deserve it more. While this is true this logic is morally wrong because you punish or reward…

Attend more carefully to what I'm saying please. I said that discrimination is just discrimination. The term "reverse discrimination" is semantically nonsense. Selecting people based on skin color is always discrimination.

That said the situation as it stands is so tilted against minorities in favor of white dudes that this injustice rarely leaves a white guy in the red on net and fixing what pitifully little preference there is before making any dent in rampant discrimination will on average net out to a decrease in justice.

Consider even in microcosm a white man applies to 10 positions who loses one due to preference given to a minority while 7 identically skilled black man fills out 10 apps each and 5 take lesser jobs. It's hard to imagine that the victim here is the white dude. Speaking as a white man white victimhood doesn't really pass the sniff test.

You mention education so lets talk about Harvard. This blew my mind.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/study-harvard-finds-43-...

> Study on Harvard finds 43 percent of white students are legacy, athletes, related to donors or staff. The number drops dramatically for black, Latino and Asian American students with less than 16 percent each coming from those categories, the study said.

Almost all the minorities are people who belong their by merit. About half the white people do. Before reading this I was against racial preference in education.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#619

Post by puffoflogic »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #541
anonymousab wrote: post #489

> After Gupta posted a link in the email group to a petition to reinstate the talk, respondents argued that caste discrimination does not exist, that caste is not a thing in the United States, and that efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division. > Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative a…

> Others said people from marginalized castes lack the education to properly interpret Hindu scriptures around castes. "If you're one of them , you're too ignorant to understand why we're right". Absolutely repulsive.

Do you think this isn't a prevalent idea in US society as well? It's just a reframing of the current DNC platform using exotic words like "caste".

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#620

Post by ceeplusplus »

nix9000 wrote: post #596
india_usa wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is 70% affirmitive action. If you are a Dalit with 50% mark you will get admission to a medical seat and you will be a cardiac surgeon, but if a brahmin girl gets 99% she will not get admission and will be a clerk. Go figure the Indian system. This is why you see thousands of Brahmins in Silicon valley as they are kicked out or disgusted with Indian political system of favoring lower castes. USA benefited immen…

>If you are a Dalit with 50% mark you will get admission to a medical seat and you will be a cardiac surgeon, but if a brahmin girl gets 99% she will not get admission and will be a clerk. Is it possible for someone with a 50% GPA to finish a cardiac surgery training program in India? Or is that a gross exaggeration?

I'm sure OP is exaggerating a bit but it's no different than the American affirmative action system where if you are black/native then you can get a 1300 SAT and get into an T20 school but if you are Asian then you need a 1600 and a laundry list of achievements.
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