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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#581

Post by oh_sigh »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #551
whoevercares wrote: post #190

I observed it multiple times during CS graduate school. An Indian high caste classmate refused to let his roommate sleep in the same bedroom. The higher caste guy told us that his roommate is of lower caste. The other poor guy ended up very obedient and sleep in the couch for 2 years. They have a group of high caste guys and talk sht about a few fellow low caste guys in the class Eye opening.

This is unthinkable in any IIT/NIT in India. I think casteism is somewhat worse in the US

I forget what the concept is called, but I will call it something like emigrant conservatism, where emigrants bring essentially a snapshot of their culture from when they emigrate, and that snapshot remains fixed - they don't feel American, so they don't integrate into American cultural norms, and they don't have much active interaction with their previous home's culture which is constantly progressing.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#582

Post by qorrect »

cuteboy19 wrote: post #533
pydry wrote: post #529

Earlier quoted context omitted.

American caste is just money though.

That's not what caste is. Caste is a value assigned to you at birth that you cannot change no matter what you do. It's similar to race but stupider

People are having a really hard time grasping this and Im not sure why.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#583

Post by throw93 »

yalogin wrote: post #118

The talk should have allowed to go through. The post I think said it right, people wanted to shut it down and the only way to do it is to discredit the speaker because they know there is truth to the arguments. However we should step back and think about how important it in the American context. What purpose is that talk going to serve? I don’t know if it does anything other than satisfying esoteric learning needs of…

>> discredit the speaker because they know there is truth to the arguments.

Source please.

>> the problem may be among single digit or double digit individuals at best.

Why do you think it's in single or double digit "at best"? This is a huge problem in India and moving to US doesn't make a racist person inclusive automatically.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#584

Post by manifestdissent »

anonymousab wrote: post #489

> After Gupta posted a link in the email group to a petition to reinstate the talk, respondents argued that caste discrimination does not exist, that caste is not a thing in the United States, and that efforts to raise awareness of these issues in the United States would sow further division. > Some called caste equity a form of reverse discrimination against the highest-ranked castes because of India’s affirmative a…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#585

Post by trevorm4 »

sashu123 wrote: post #363

[flagged]

Maybe someone that is a member of the caste that is accused of discriminating against lower castes shouldn't be deciding if that group is being discriminated against. It would be like if white people were the deciders of whether black people are oppressed in modern America. Numerous law suits have been filed about this very thing, so it is obviously still an issue in the workplace.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#586

Post by qorrect »

SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #548
skyde wrote: post #538

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So would that co-worker be able to guess the caste of the candidate during a 30minute phone interview ?

Casted are guessable simply by seeing someone’s name.

What are some obvious examples? Thx

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#587

Post by qorrect »

tristor wrote: post #347

Related, Washington Post previously published an anonymous open letter from Dalit women in 2020 in the wake of Cisco being sued for caste discrimination: https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/a-statement-on-caste-... One of the most interesting things that stood out to me from this letter and that lawsuit was the assertion by those affected that discrimination on the basis of caste was more impactful and more severe…

What did you witness?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#588

Post by tremon »

ajross wrote: post #561
CWuestefeld wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But I think the same argument can be applied here in the USA, too. Your point about "security through obscurity" makes sense; I wouldn't attempt to conceal the history and the current problems. But the strategy here today seems to be trying to force people to own a given racial identity: at least some people are demanding that white people should stand up to publicly renounce their privilege, etc. And I'm afraid that…

FWIW: I think you're conflating things. Teaching kids about slavery and segregation, and teaching older kids the enduring effects thereof (which are quantifiable!) isn't the same thing as forcing them to pick a racial identity or renounce their privilege or whatever, even if some of the same people want to do both. You can oppose the latter without denying the former. From my perspective on the other side of this div…

which are quantifiable

Are they really? I mean, I understand we can quantify generational or class-based inequality, but can we really quantify how much of that difference is attributable to slavery and/or segregation? Or is the implicit default to attribute 50% to slavery and attribute the other 50% to segregation?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#589

Post by throw93 »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #7

This is likely an example why it may not always be a great idea to discuss politics at work. I know a lot of us have strong personal opinions on a lot of subjects, but making sure everyone on my team aligns with my beliefs is likely not conducive to teamwork. Quite the opposite. If I was not an IC now, I would definitely be trying to cut discussions like that in a bud.

How is this political? This is standard DEI stuff.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#590

Post by yarrel »

walkhour wrote: post #353
drewcoo wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. A single anecdote is sufficient to merit "at least partly." You can say it's not generally proved. But it also wasn't a universal claim.

At least partly means part of the explanation is what follows. Not that there's at least single case of what follows in the world. Do you realize how absurd language would be if what you claim is true? For example: - Is is true latino men are discriminated against when applying for florist positions? - Yes, it happened once. Literally any group would be "party discriminated" in every possible scenario according to ho…

Every number is a number, including zero. Therefore some number of members of any given group have been discriminated against. Therefore any group is indeed discriminated against. You can't argue with objective mathematical proof.

Slightly more seriously, if someone is discriminated against for being part of a group, you don't get to appeal to the fallacy of composition applied to all groups in order to claim that there is no discrimination against that individual. Yes, yes, you're not actually writing out that argument, you're just leaving its ingredients lying around next to a naked flame.

Entirely seriously, here is your proof:

https://www.r-bloggers.com/2019/12/modeling-salary-and-gende...

Now switch to some other attempt at distraction via reducio of the actual argument.

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