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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#341

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bobobob420 wrote: post #227
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no caste discrimination in US , he literally lives in a 2 million dollar home Would you similarly reject the hardships of a successful black American? If he's facing such animus, why do you think it stops elsewhere? FYI, there are studies [1] and a lawsuit [2] documenting caste discrimination in America. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caste_discrimination_in_the_Un... [2] https://www.reuters.com/article…

Quoted post unavailable.

> We are talking magnitudes of didference

There are no magnitudes. One person’s sorrow doesn’t diminish another’s.

> indians who have a 99 percent employment rate and some of the highest salaries

Ah, got it. Because some Indians do well none of them have any legitimate claims or qualms. Quite literally a racist surmisement, but at this point I should not be surprised.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#342

Post by throwntoday »

photochemsyn wrote: post #187
naravara wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe, Google, instead of just giving up you should be asking why a speaker on Dalit rights and inclusion is causing "division and rancor" in your community? Or is that also a difficult conversation you'd rather not have? The same reason speakers on Palestinian rights often can. While they may be on the right side of the issue, it's also very easy for closed discussion spaces to rapidly devolve into pretty viciousl…

The same reason speakers on Palestinian rights often can. While they may be on the right side of the issue, it's also very easy for closed discussion spaces to rapidly devolve into pretty viciously anti-semitic tropes. The roots of this behavior as well as the fear of this behavior lie in a logical fallacy called composition, which is spelled out at the Nizkor Project (a site on the history of the Holocaust): > The f…

> Just because the Israeli government is highly repressive towards the Palestinian population in the West Bank and Gaza, and treats non-Jews as second-class citizens within Israel proper, does not mean that all Jews around the world share this behavior.

This is a rather hilarious statement as almost no one believes that. You are committing the same fallacy that you repudiated.

Anyway inference is kind of predicated on guessing with some facts isn't it? If Israel is "the only democracy in the middle east", and they elected a government that is openly apartheid, and commits atrocities the jewish people themselves have been victim to, doesn't that make the whole of Israel's voters complicit?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#343

Post by tzs »

TrackerFF wrote: post #88
izacus wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Europe, you can always reliably find a massive amount of racism against the Romani people ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romani_people ).

Not to be confused with the Romanian people - i.e, people from Romania. (Though some of the Roma people can obviously also be Romanians!). EDIT: I absolutely condone discrimination, but I think for the people that live in areas with very visible Roma people, it's kind of obvious why. At best, you'll just see them begging on the streets. At worst, you'll experience getting hounded down by them, getting robbed, or your…

> I absolutely condone discrimination

Did you mean condemn?

condemn: express complete disapproval of

condone: approve or sanction (something), especially with reluctance

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#344

Post by seoaeu »

notacoward wrote: post #243
ethbr0 wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The central issue with discussions about Israel is a failure to differentiate Israel (the state and government) with Judaism (the religion) with Jew/Hebrew (the ethnicity). (And yes, I realize Israel is a multi-ethnic, multi-religious state, but to a first order approximation and given current political dynamics... it's not) Given that there are relatively few states with as intertwined religions and historical atroc…

> failure to differentiate Israel (the state and government) with Judaism (the religion) with Jew/Hebrew (the ethnicity) That has not been my experience. AFAICT even people who are extremely careful and specific about criticizing the state of Israel - even more specifically the IDF or a political party within Israel responsible for a particular act - still get tarred with the "anti-Semitic" brush. Jewish people have…

It isn’t enough to focus criticism against a specific individual or narrow group. You also have to consider whether the criticism is justified or echos specific stereotypes

For instance, there’s many who feel that some of the criticism against Barack Obama was racist. Not because it isn’t ok to criticize a US president but because prior presidents hadn’t been treated similarly/held to the same standard

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#345

Post by vijaybritto »

burrows wrote: post #285
dahart wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Genuinely asking: Is this also sexism? One way to look at it is that the disparity may be a symptom of complicated cultural biases, and we may not know the specific reasons. Since there’s nothing gender or sex related to doing the job of QA, then if the disparity actually is measurable and widespread, it does reveal cultural bias. This is currently true for nurses and for elementary school teachers in the US, for e…

> Since there’s nothing gender or sex related to doing the job of QA, How do you know this to be true? > cultural bias What definition are you using for this term?

>> How do you know this to be true?

Goto LinkedIn and search for QA engineers in Indian cities. I think that should be a very good proof for you

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#346

Post by dundarious »

Pigalowda wrote: post #307

There are 200+ million Dalits in India. These are the people which were previously called “untouchables”. I work in medicine, many Indians work with me and most are Brahmins with a few Christian Malayali from Kerala. I think the Malayali have shown it is possible to escape the caste system and to have success. However I am worried Dalits have been at the bottom and treated as such for thousands of years that it has e…

What are or should be the consequences of these worries of yours?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#347

Post by tristor »

Related, Washington Post previously published an anonymous open letter from Dalit women in 2020 in the wake of Cisco being sued for caste discrimination: https://www.washingtonpost.com/context/a-statement-on-caste-...

One of the most interesting things that stood out to me from this letter and that lawsuit was the assertion by those affected that discrimination on the basis of caste was more impactful and more severe than discrimination suffered due to immigration status, race, and gender in US society, and the letter goes so far as to state "We know that we thrive when we work under a non-Indian boss. Our work is seen and evaluated on merit, and we are integrated rather than being excluded."

It makes these discussions of castes even more important, especially as Indian immigration continues to rise and Indian culture begins to take precedence in the tech industry. Being a white American from the Midwest, I had no awareness of caste or caste discrimination when I began my career, but as I got more experienced began to learn about it and unfortunately I have personally witnessed some incidents in the workplace during my career. I wish that Google had allowed this talk to move forward, because I think ending workplace discrimination is a critical path to ensuring a merit-based free market open to all.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#348

Post by michael1999 »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

> importing ethnicities means importing their ethnic conflicts too, always Is there evidence for this? Couldn't null be valid: those choosing to emigrate are most likely to be willing or wanting to leave that nonsense behind? Caste has no place in America. It's antithetical to our founding values. Plenty of Indians emigrate while leaving their caste identity, and any will to act on it, behind. There may remain implic…

The IRA visited Boston every year to pass the hat during the troubles. Sinn Fein is still raising money in the USA.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/sinn-féin-raised-12...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#349

Post by vijaybritto »

walkhour wrote: post #258
lyaa wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least partly. When I was starting out, I would apply to dev positions only to get offers to interview for lower-paid QA positions. After changing to a gender-neutral nickname and removing all female-identifying terms from my resume, I got the interviews for dev positions.

You claim "at least partly" and then proceed to prove it with anecdotal evidence. You'd need to prove it with a study similar to the ones that send identical CVs to companies, just changing one thing, which is what they want to discover if there's bias against.

The onus is on the victims. Hmm, this sounds very familiar..

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#350

Post by alex_smart »

dandare wrote: post #334

After a quick google search I can see some very controversial comments by Thenmozhi Soundararajan. Hopefully the world is changing and demonising ones race, even if that race is white or Hindu, will soon be neither celebrated nor even acceptable.

How is Dr Subramanian relevant to this article again?
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