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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#51

Post by fartcannon »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

I don't know if the Indian caste thing should be considered obscure. There are 1.3 billion Indians. By number of people affected it might be one of the more important conversations in the world today.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#52

Post by rangersanger »

bko wrote: post #10

Do we need every mega-corporation to weigh in on every social issue globally? The thing I like most about work is that its a relatively diverse group of people working together on shared goal. People have known for a long time that work should be professional and you should avoid politics and religion. But I guess people have to relearn these lessons every few decades.

I’m wondering what you mean by weighing in globally. Do you mean publicly, or internally within the global google employment base? Google is big enough that I’m not sure public/internal can really be teased apart, but I guess intention might matter.

Regardless, I’ve come to realize that not talking about politics and religion doesn’t make political or religious action and impact go away, it just stays insidious.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#53

Post by ZeroGravitas »

bzxcvbn wrote: post #26
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

Lumping in hindu castes, Christian denominations, and Jewish people in what I assume is the beginning-mid 20th century, makes no sense. Yes, it all falls under xenophobia, but the impact are wildly different.

I'd be intetested to hear how the ones you are familiar with differ, and in what ways you see parallels.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#54

Post by ralmidani »

inglor_cz wrote: post #20
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

Add "Muslim/Kafir" to the list. And Sunni/Shi'a.

Bad analogy. A person’s deeply-held belief that a given religion is true, and calling others to that belief, is not the same as saying “you were born of a lower caste and should never be able to escape that.”

Of course, it goes without saying, perceiving you belong to the true faith does not justify violence or discrimination. But faith-based identification is not analogous to a caste system.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#55

Post by naravara »

brendoelfrendo wrote: post #38
lolinder wrote: post #15

> “We also made the decision to not move forward with the proposed talk which — rather than bringing our community together and raising awareness — was creating division and rancor,” Newberry wrote. This doesn't surprise me one bit. Even on HN, every thread on this topic turns into a flame war with a bunch of people crying racism/religionism. How dare we discuss something we don't fully understand? How dare we critic…

That quote from the article gave me pause. It sounds like an admission that they wanted the good PR from having a caste bias speaker, but when having a conversation on a difficult topic actually became difficult, they backed down. Maybe, Google, instead of just giving up you should be asking why a speaker on Dalit rights and inclusion is causing "division and rancor" in your community? Or is that also a difficult con…

> Maybe, Google, instead of just giving up you should be asking why a speaker on Dalit rights and inclusion is causing "division and rancor" in your community? Or is that also a difficult conversation you'd rather not have?

The same reason speakers on Palestinian rights often can. While they may be on the right side of the issue, it's also very easy for closed discussion spaces to rapidly devolve into pretty viciously anti-semitic tropes.

These discussions need to be done with some strict moderation and sensitivity, usually with actual historians who can properly contextualize the issue. If all you're doing is bringing in "activists" from a specific point of view to talk about it while delegitimizing all other perspectives as inherently beneath consideration it's not gonna go well.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#57

Post by likis »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

Sami people is another example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%A1mi#Discrimination_again...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#58

Post by np_tedious »

fartcannon wrote: post #51
ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

I don't know if the Indian caste thing should be considered obscure. There are 1.3 billion Indians. By number of people affected it might be one of the more important conversations in the world today.

It's "obscure" bc it is underappreciated in the US and probably most places outside of India

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#59

Post by washadjeffmad »

sitkack wrote: post #14
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

A good read for some additional context on caste discrimination in the American tech industry: https://www.wired.com/story/trapped-in-silicon-valleys-hidde...

Not just caste discrimination, but also sexism. I have worked at least three companies where if there were Indian women, the vast majority were in QA.

There are people in QA who are Patel. We have women from India who work at all levels, from ED to L1. All pillars are necessary.

The biggest problem I've encountered is that they are sometimes socially isolated because Western colleagues don't know how to approach them, when they're really easy to talk to and have a lot to say!

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#60

Post by aahortwwy »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #33
MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #12

Quoted post unavailable.

> importing ethnicities means importing their ethnic conflicts too, always Is there evidence for this? Couldn't null be valid: those choosing to emigrate are most likely to be willing or wanting to leave that nonsense behind? Caste has no place in America. It's antithetical to our founding values. Plenty of Indians emigrate while leaving their caste identity, and any will to act on it, behind. There may remain implic…

Happens pretty frequently.

One example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Irish_Americans_in_...

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