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Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#21

Post by rob74 »

> Soundararajan appealed directly to Google CEO Sundar Pichai, who comes from an upper-caste family in India, to allow her presentation to go forward. But the talk was canceled, leading some employees to conclude that Google was willfully ignoring caste bias.

> Pichai, the CEO, “is Indian and he is Brahmin and he grew up in Tamil Nadu. There is no way you grow up in Tamil Nadu and not know about caste because of how caste politics shaped the conversation,” Soundararajan told The Post. “If he can make passionate statements about Google’s [diversity equity and inclusion] commitments in the wake of George Floyd, he absolutely should be making those same commitments to the context he comes from where he is someone of privilege.”

Sounds like Mr. Pichai has some explaining to do...

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#23

Post by BaseballPhysics »

lolinder wrote: post #15

> “We also made the decision to not move forward with the proposed talk which — rather than bringing our community together and raising awareness — was creating division and rancor,” Newberry wrote. This doesn't surprise me one bit. Even on HN, every thread on this topic turns into a flame war with a bunch of people crying racism/religionism. How dare we discuss something we don't fully understand? How dare we critic…

No post body was provided.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#24

Post by bko »

rsstack wrote: post #13
bko wrote: post #10

Do we need every mega-corporation to weigh in on every social issue globally? The thing I like most about work is that its a relatively diverse group of people working together on shared goal. People have known for a long time that work should be professional and you should avoid politics and religion. But I guess people have to relearn these lessons every few decades.

They don't have to weigh in. But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? This isn't political, it's professional: US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination, and so people need to be trained in understanding what discrimination looks like. You don't categorize "securit…

> But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes?

Shouldn't the managers and decision makers be aware of the local customs, cultural issues and employment laws in the region they manage? You really think it's appropriate for some white American manager to lecture his Indian subordinates after spending a few hours in training?

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#25

Post by [deleted] »

lolinder wrote: post #15

> “We also made the decision to not move forward with the proposed talk which — rather than bringing our community together and raising awareness — was creating division and rancor,” Newberry wrote. This doesn't surprise me one bit. Even on HN, every thread on this topic turns into a flame war with a bunch of people crying racism/religionism. How dare we discuss something we don't fully understand? How dare we critic…

[deleted]

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#26

Post by bzxcvbn »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #18

Is there a Wikipedia list of obscure 'race'-isms? I find reading about other cultures or other time period's biases to be informative and wonder what the common elements might be. Off the top of my head, issues I can think of where an outsider may be oblivious between the "sides" are: Indian caste Japanese Barukumin caste Protestant/Catholic in Europe Jewish people in Europe/US/USSR English Class System, or Southern/…

Lumping in hindu castes, Christian denominations, and Jewish people in what I assume is the beginning-mid 20th century, makes no sense. Yes, it all falls under xenophobia, but the impact are wildly different.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#27

Post by 30944836 »

sitkack wrote: post #14
MontyCarloHall wrote: post #5

A good read for some additional context on caste discrimination in the American tech industry: https://www.wired.com/story/trapped-in-silicon-valleys-hidde...

Not just caste discrimination, but also sexism. I have worked at least three companies where if there were Indian women, the vast majority were in QA.

I noticed the text of your comment ins grey, which means someone downvoted you. I disagree on first take of your comment, because QA to me doesn't represent a lower-tier of anything. It's a tech job. Women being in tech is good. Indian people being in tech is good. Will you share a bit more about your thinking? Why do you see this as being discrimination?

Sidenote: I once glanced around a team I was working on a few years ago and found most of the product/program managers were gay or lesbian. Didn't strike me as discrimination, since there are, of course, gay and lesbian hardware engineers, gay and lesbian software engineers... it just happened that we all found each other on a particular team.

So that's why I think that's what's going on here, but I'm eager to hear your thoughts, as they differ from mine.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#28

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bko wrote: post #24
rsstack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to weigh in. But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? This isn't political, it's professional: US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination, and so people need to be trained in understanding what discrimination looks like. You don't categorize "securit…

> But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? Shouldn't the managers and decision makers be aware of the local customs, cultural issues and employment laws in the region they manage? You really think it's appropriate for some white American manager to lecture his Indian subor…

> the local customs, cultural issues and employment laws in the region they manage

This article concerns caste discrimination in the United States.

Re: Google cancelled a talk on caste bias

#29

Post by rsstack »

bko wrote: post #24
rsstack wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't have to weigh in. But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? This isn't political, it's professional: US laws and Google policies forbid discrimination, and so people need to be trained in understanding what discrimination looks like. You don't categorize "securit…

> But, if few Indian managers discriminate against Dalits, how are their non-Indian peers and managers supposed to correct that discrimination if they don't even understand what are castes? Shouldn't the managers and decision makers be aware of the local customs, cultural issues and employment laws in the region they manage? You really think it's appropriate for some white American manager to lecture his Indian subor…

That's their job. If they don't like it, they aren't fit to do it. If managers could only come from the exact same background as their subordinates, globalization would be screwed.
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