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Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

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Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#121

Post by 5ESS »

withinboredom wrote: post #77
withinboredom wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's abuse and theft, plain and simple. Replace "domain" with literally any physical object. You can't just take someone else's shit, no matter how high-and-mighty you think you are (excepting governments, of course).

Oh, if anyone wants to argue that it’s “in the TOS” that sounds like a contract no normal person would sign and likely not enforceable (IANAL) if pushed. No “sane” person would say, “yeah, if you think I’m doing something wrong, just sell all my shit!”

It’s sickening. They are committing a massive crime here and getting away with it. It’s time somebody alerts the media and blow the whistle on Cloudflares abusive actions.

I wonder how many customers domains Cloudflare stole/deleted who’s owner didn’t have the luxury of knowing the Hacker News publicity trick?

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#122

Post by srrr »

srrr wrote: post #93
usr1106 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. But even if they (any of those corps running algorithms but no customer support worth the name) comply (which I won't take for granted), you will get some code or keyword that fraudulent activity was detected. Very unlikely that they have technical details of the root cause in their customer DB.

I don't think so. I have not worked on many fraud detection systems but in all cases there was a very detailed record in the logs of what happened and how the decision came to be. In addition, if there was a human review additional data is often generated. You can't just flip a bit in the customer record, or can you? (Edit: And if no information is in the logs I would argue that all information is in the input data a…

While thinking about it I found an interesting fact: If they don't produce the data that lead to the account ban because they they "don't have it", they don't actually have proof of fraud anymore. If they don't have proof of fraud you can invoke GDPR article 16 "Right to rectification" and "unfraud" your account. Theoretically they can't argue against it because they don't have any data to argue with...

If they don't unfraud you AND don't produce the data they are not in compliance of either article 15 or article 16 and have delivered the proof noncompliance themselves.

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#123

Post by 5ESS »

travoltaj wrote: post #92
5ESS wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s terrifying. By far the worst part of this. If they ban somebody for TOS violations that is fair, but preventing people from transferring out their domain and setting it to pendingdelete is really insidious. What they are doing is akin to stealing anyone domain name permanently with no recourse. This may be grounds for a lawsuit.

I would've 100% sued and paid for PR releases if they deleted a domain name I owned. I'm sure I could make decent money off punitive damages based off the email they sent, and these headlines would be pretty catchy - "Tech giant siezed and deleted a customers domain name." "Using Cloudflare can destroy your business overnight. This is how" "Own a domain name? Your registrar can delete it without any recourse." "Cloud…

I implore you to consider alerting media outlets about Cloudflares abusive actions anyway. More needs to be down to expose CloudFlare’s abusive actions. They can’t keep getting away with this.

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#125

Post by mgdlbp »

throwamon wrote: post #110
dylan604 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>to proofread any text before it goes "live". Not on the internet I use. Even the old school newspapers are failing basic grammar things that anyone calling themself an editor would catch. Mainly, because they are not getting edited at all. Reports get entered into a CMS, a publish button is pressed, viola, first to publish! Yay!!! Only, in the rush, basic grade school grammar is non-existent and makes my brain slow…

> viola Oh, the irony...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muphry%27s_law

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#127

Post by tgsovlerkhgsel »

delroth wrote: post #80
srrr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you live in the EU the article 15 of the GDPR grants you the right to ask about the details. Often companies reply that they don't need to answer because of ¨security¨ but this is not true. You can in detail ask about ALL personal data that was used as an input for this decision, information about the ¨automated decision-making¨ (algorithm), and all personal data that resulted out of this process. https://gdpr.eu/…

> You can in detail ask about ALL personal data that was used as an input for this decision, information about the ¨automated decision-making¨ (algorithm), and all personal data that resulted out of this process. https://gdpr.eu/article-15-right-of-access/ That is only true in specific cases of processing, as detailed by article 22: "a decision based solely on automated processing, including profiling, which produces…

I suspect the workaround on the side of the companies doing this is to include human review (or appeals) to ensure the decision is no longer based "solely on automated processing".

Even if not intended, a reviewer that sees mostly true positives is very likely to become a blind rubber stamp.

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#128

Post by andrewnyr »

johnklos wrote: post #55
xxdesmus wrote: post #8

Hello, I'm the Head of Trust & Safety. Please forward me the email? This is very likely legitimate and from our team, but I'd like to confirm. justin@ cloudflare.com

Hey, Justin... Perhaps you can explain why this happened in the first place while also explaining why you ignore complaints about tons of spammers and scammers that are hosted(note) on your platform? (note) hosting is providing services on the Internet without which a site / domain won't work, so please don't try to pretend you don't host because you've decided to redefine "hosting".

proxy =/= hosting

understand the tech, there is no redefinition going on

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#129

Post by rozab »

batter wrote: post #58
malikNF wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Update 2: ----------------------------- Helo, To clarify the issue, this account was identified in a recent fraud review, however it appears to have been a false positive. We have left a note in this account for future reference. Kind Regards, Cloudflare Trust & Safety

When I reported fraudulent activity (attacks on enterprise accounts) from CF IPs they told me to f*ck off, their customers know what they're doing. Wondering what it takes to ban someone on CF.

Denying abuse and aggressively policing for it are both ways of achieving the same thing, that is, minimising liability

Re: Ask HN: Has Cloudflare blocked your domain without explaining what's going on?

#130

Post by social_quotient »

Seems like removing a site and accusing it[owner] as fraudulent would be some sort of slander/defamation and require a lot more proof and/or liability should they be wrong.

The ai world should have some penalty for being wrong to discourage this sort of behavior in a punitive way. This would dissuade companies from scaling before things are really ready.

Thoughts?

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