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High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

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Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#141

Post by BitwiseFool »

suture wrote: post #110
BitwiseFool wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sense there is a difference between passing policy which broadly affects future actions (tax rates, credits, etc.) and making a campaign promise to directly pay (or in this case forgive) a lump sum of money to a certain contingent of the electorate.

The child tax credit would be an example of ‘buying votes’ too, right? What about promises to increase milk subsidies? Or promises to keep protecting the limber industry from competition from Canada? Aren’t all such things ‘buying votes’ as you put it? I’m not an economist but I suspect that in a society with a strong welfare system, universal healthcare, and free higher education then wages wouldn’t have to be as hi…

Yes, I do consider the child tax credit buying votes and I likewise consider farm subsidies vote buying as well. This situation, in particular, seems egregious because of the amount being proposed - $10,000 - and because the executive branch is planning to do it unilaterally. I would still disagree with the measure, but I wouldn't feel as strongly if this happened a result of a vote from Congress.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#142

Post by nonethewiser »

woopwoop wrote: post #37

I feel like this article doesn't support it's thesis at all. Why does the government lending directly result in less downward price pressure than guaranteeing loans? The only hypothesis I can imagine is that people anticipated something like student loan forgiveness, but that requires more evidence than what is given here (after all the government could in theory waive private loans and reimburse the lender).

Because the colleges get paid up front instead of going through the collection process 15 years later.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#143

Post by nonethewiser »

lizknope wrote: post #10

So where is the money going? If the price of something is increasing faster than inflation then I expect something in return for the extra money I am paying like a bigger house, faster computer, whatever. I went to college in the 1990's. Are college students getting a better education or experience for all the extra money they are paying? I've seen my university's new classrooms, student center, library, dorms, etc.…

> I went to college in the 1990's. Are college students getting a better education or experience for all the extra money they are paying?

it's arguably worse

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#144

Post by nonethewiser »

giorgosts wrote: post #62

Why are tuition fees and student loans necessary? Instead of the government backing up or paying up the student loans, can't it just pay the university directly and then the student would study for free? (after perhaps some common sense adjustments to prevent abuse). Like in, you know, Europe.

Well, then everyone would be paying for it instead of the people that go.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#145

Post by peteradio »

nonethewiser wrote: post #136
peteradio wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want to know where you think it’s going and why you think that Guess: Do nothing administrators paid to be on vacation. Why: Several years ago I called 4 of them to follow up on different job applications and did not once get a live human, only out of office messages. Over the course of about six weeks I called each every week and left each a single message. I never received a single call back or email. This was…

Quoted post unavailable.

Like I said, never heard back but that would have been a pretty extraordinary explanation given this was around 2018.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#146

Post by Spivak »

the_only_law wrote: post #77
Loughla wrote: post #16

I mean, yeah. But also, the expectations placed on colleges have grown exponentially. Retention staff, student life staff, counseling staff, new innovative (read: Expensive) programs, the 'experience'. These all cost money. My experience of expectations of college in the 90's - can I drink? Do the faculty let me miss if I need to? My experience of expectations of college now - is my child safe? Can s/he access approp…

> Retention staff, student life staff, counseling staff, new innovative (read: Expensive) programs, the 'experience'. These all cost money. Looking at going back sometime within the next few years. I don’t need any of this shit. I want to learn, do research and make new connections, but I’ll certainly half to help fund it for it, at least for a couple years. For example: > Do you have co-curricular and curricular exp…

> I don’t need any of this shit. I want to learn, do research and make new connections

You're running into the fact that universities aren't set up for adults, and what you're buying isn't really what they're selling. The activities that actually fund the learning is the undergrad college experience and grant money. If you want to join a PhD program and do research you'll find lots of resources, connections, and access to people in the field, and if you want to party, go to football games, and learn some stuff along the way there's plenty of resources for that too.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#147

Post by dap »

peteradio wrote: post #106
dap wrote: post #53

There’s no data in this article. In his recent book, Ron Lieber argues that the actual price paid hasn’t gone up nearly so much as the sticker price because of the increasing ubiquity of merit aid (which is terribly named). How does that factor in? He also points out that people’s expectations about what colleges provide have gone up. People expect small class sizes, mental health services, etc. If you argue colleges…

> I want to know where you think it’s going and why you think that Guess: Do nothing administrators paid to be on vacation. Why: Several years ago I called 4 of them to follow up on different job applications and did not once get a live human, only out of office messages. Over the course of about six weeks I called each every week and left each a single message. I never received a single call back or email. This was…

Ugh, that does sound really frustrating.

Certainly, people bring up too many overpaid administrators a lot. It's a compelling story too because it's got a well-defined bad guy. I've not seen much depth to the analysis though. Another story might be that "administrator" is what some people call people whose jobs they don't know or don't associate with "running a college"? Elsewhere in this thread folks have pointed out that colleges _do_ a lot more things now, from mental health services to just being bigger (and so having more overhead and associated middle management). _More_ administrators isn't bad if they're doing useful things.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#148

Post by nonethewiser »

colinmhayes wrote: post #134
stillbourne wrote: post #104

Let's be real here, our generation was sold a bill of goods. Do well in high school and you'll get into college, which is the only chance you have to succeed in the world. If we didn't do well, we were shamed, grounded, told we were failures and punished. Do good, get a degree and the world will be your oyster! There will be an ocean of jobs all of which will allow you to retire with a big fat nest egg! The problem h…

College is still the best investment you can make in yourself, even accounting for opportunity cost. Expected earnings increase by over a million for getting your degree. That's a large reason why people are willing to pay so much.

>College is still the best investment you can make in yourself

No it's not. Not without qualifiers. What if it costs $5M/year and the median income for graduates is 40k upon graduation? Clearly not worth it. That would utterly ruin your finances for the rest of your life. So there is some point where it becomes worth it. The question is where, which is going to be a little different for everyone.

Is 240k for a liberal arts degree worth it to you? It's certainly not for me.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#149

Post by TimPC »

woopwoop wrote: post #37

I feel like this article doesn't support it's thesis at all. Why does the government lending directly result in less downward price pressure than guaranteeing loans? The only hypothesis I can imagine is that people anticipated something like student loan forgiveness, but that requires more evidence than what is given here (after all the government could in theory waive private loans and reimburse the lender).

A smaller fraction of government loans have very high interest rates for starters, so loans became cheaper money when they came directly from government rather than were insured by government.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#150

Post by sevenf0ur »

lapcat wrote: post #117
sevenf0ur wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A college graduate will earn $900,000 more than a non-college graduate over their lifetime. > You can make a higher income than another person but still be poorer than them because of debt. Maybe we should focus our money on making college costs more affordable rather than forgiving loans and signaling to universities and students that it's safe to take on more debt?

> A college graduate will earn $900,000 more than a non-college graduate over their lifetime. A male college graduate, on average. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education... "Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in media…

> Why not both?

Because forgiving loans is a moral hazard. It signals to new college students that they can take out more debt and it signals to universities that they can raise tuition.

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