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High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

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Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#131

Post by sevenf0ur »

lapcat wrote: post #99
sevenf0ur wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's debatable that the President has the authority to forgive federal loans. Forgiving a small amount of debt for a more wealthier group of people without fixing the root of the problem is just selfish and bad policy. It's no wonder why the proposal is very unpopular.

> It's no wonder why the proposal is very unpopular. It's actually quite popular: https://www.forbes.com/sites/zackfriedman/2022/04/18/student...

> Fifth, 29% of respondents don’t want any student loans canceled, which is the single highest of any of the answer choices.

I might support 0% interest rates so I guess that might be considered canceling some student loans for all?

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#132

Post by suture »

lapcat wrote: post #117
sevenf0ur wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A college graduate will earn $900,000 more than a non-college graduate over their lifetime. > You can make a higher income than another person but still be poorer than them because of debt. Maybe we should focus our money on making college costs more affordable rather than forgiving loans and signaling to universities and students that it's safe to take on more debt?

> A college graduate will earn $900,000 more than a non-college graduate over their lifetime. A male college graduate, on average. https://www.ssa.gov/policy/docs/research-summaries/education... "Men with bachelor's degrees earn approximately $900,000 more in median lifetime earnings than high school graduates. Women with bachelor's degrees earn $630,000 more. Men with graduate degrees earn $1.5 million more in media…

A large percent of students never get a degree. Here’s the best statistics that I could find. It talks about 6 year graduation rates but I think a large percent of those who don’t graduate within 6 years never graduate.

https://nces.ed.gov/FastFacts/display.asp?id=40

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#133

Post by colinmhayes »

Swizec wrote: post #51

Another likely contributing factor: “Yale now has as many administrators as undergraduates”. The trend is similar for other colleges. https://freakonomics.com/podcast/what-is-the-future-of-colle...

Yale also has twice as many postgrads as undergrads.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#134

Post by colinmhayes »

stillbourne wrote: post #104

Let's be real here, our generation was sold a bill of goods. Do well in high school and you'll get into college, which is the only chance you have to succeed in the world. If we didn't do well, we were shamed, grounded, told we were failures and punished. Do good, get a degree and the world will be your oyster! There will be an ocean of jobs all of which will allow you to retire with a big fat nest egg! The problem h…

College is still the best investment you can make in yourself, even accounting for opportunity cost. Expected earnings increase by over a million for getting your degree. That's a large reason why people are willing to pay so much.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#135

Post by nonethewiser »

the_only_law wrote: post #91
Agamus wrote: post #24

"The solution is and always has been to cut the fluff from the academies. For context, go add up the salaries the 'student services' area of the expensive school of your choice. Having worked for one such office for ~15 years, the most appalling part was that they are largely antagonistic toward the faculty and mission of the schools. The waste is dizzying." I made the above comment on another thread with a similar t…

Shit I’m fine with keeping stuff if majority of the student body wants to pay for it, but let me opt out. The education system and tangential friends have so far proven the hardest bureaucracy I’ve ever tried to find a way around. I hate that now, when I’m more mature, more experienced, and know exactly what I want from it is the time it’s the most difficult for me to go back.

But why would they do that? They will taught these extravagant programs that few want/need/will take advantage of but they will bake into everyone's tuition.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#136

Post by nonethewiser »

peteradio wrote: post #106
dap wrote: post #53

There’s no data in this article. In his recent book, Ron Lieber argues that the actual price paid hasn’t gone up nearly so much as the sticker price because of the increasing ubiquity of merit aid (which is terribly named). How does that factor in? He also points out that people’s expectations about what colleges provide have gone up. People expect small class sizes, mental health services, etc. If you argue colleges…

> I want to know where you think it’s going and why you think that Guess: Do nothing administrators paid to be on vacation. Why: Several years ago I called 4 of them to follow up on different job applications and did not once get a live human, only out of office messages. Over the course of about six weeks I called each every week and left each a single message. I never received a single call back or email. This was…

No post body was provided.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#137

Post by zippergz »

nonethewiser wrote: post #130
Loughla wrote: post #16

I mean, yeah. But also, the expectations placed on colleges have grown exponentially. Retention staff, student life staff, counseling staff, new innovative (read: Expensive) programs, the 'experience'. These all cost money. My experience of expectations of college in the 90's - can I drink? Do the faculty let me miss if I need to? My experience of expectations of college now - is my child safe? Can s/he access approp…

> But also, the expectations placed on colleges have grown exponentially. Retention staff, student life staff, counseling staff, new innovative (read: Expensive) programs Have they? Or are these just new things the college has come up with to sell?

I worked in a university system for a while, and my observation is that the expectations have absolutely grown. Yes, someone has to be the first to think of some new thing to sell, but once they do, all of their competitors have to do the same thing to keep up. So many of the questions from prospective students and their parents are of the form "do you have X" or "do you do Y," all being things that other schools they are considering have or do. It's very hard for an individual institution to buck this trend if they wish to stay competitive for students.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#138

Post by the_only_law »

HKH2 wrote: post #88
timeimp wrote: post #9

Why not penalise tertiary institutions by stating that if students don’t find employment using those credentials, within 2 yard, their alumni fund / endowment fund gets raided the cost the degree?

There goes any degrees considered useless. That's probably not what you want.

Or they can borrow a strategy from boot camps and hire their graduates to boost the numbers.

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#139

Post by nonethewiser »

zoolily wrote: post #114
willcipriano wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that degree holders go on to make wages much higher than those without, is it really fair that those without subsidize the education expenses of people who will go on to out earn them? Especially given how vanishingly little of it goes to actual education and instead administration and sporting programs.

Universities have a broader purpose than training people for the workplace. Ironically, increased costs is a large part of the reason why society's vision of universities has become so limited. It's also worth noting that reducing subsidies to education led to much of the administrative expansion. Recruitment, development, alumni, grant, and IP offices were created or expanded tremendously in an attempt to find addit…

> Universities have a broader purpose than training people for the workplace. Ironically, increased costs is a large part of the reason why society's vision of universities has become so limited.

What is that? Instilling values some people think is important and not others?

Re: High tuition costs mostly stem from the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act 1993

#140

Post by Wowfunhappy »

Incentive structures are important, but not the entire story. The article makes no attempt to examine where tuition revenue is actually being spent. Without that piece, I don't find their argument particularly convincing.

The article asserts:

> Close to 70% of college students attend using federal student loans, so schools would have no choice but to adjust their tuitions to match [the maximum federal loan], or risk losing a large chunk of revenue.

But as the article points out, the vast majority of schools are non-profits. Unlike corporations, they should not be attempting to maximize revenue.

I could be wrong, but I do not think most college administrators are looking to extract as much money for their students as possible. They want to put their students on a path to success, which implies not leaving them with crippling levels of debt.

Unfortunately, colleges sometimes don't have a choice, because they have bills to pay and are not swimming in piles of cash. Which leaves my primary question—if tuition has risen so much, where is that money going?

I have not yet seen a really good examination of this question.

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