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The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

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Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#71

Post by smoldesu »

internet2000 wrote: post #62
smoldesu wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can we say "Apple did the right call" without knowing what their call was, knowing if this article is true, knowing what the product even looks like , or even knowing how successful the product was relative to the rest of their lineup? For all we know, this project is scrapped and dead.

If they launch something that’s garbage, that was the wrong call. If they don’t, it was the right call.

And what if they don't release something that could have changed the world? Would "shelving" the iPhone be the right move too?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#72

Post by kurthr »

Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

Don't forget even the home use case where you're much less likely to have a pair of 30" monitors or even the space to put them... nor the IP concerns of the company, if you did have them in your living room. I agree, for apple this is most likely to be a creative/productivity play at high dollar. The challenge will be pricing and multi-hour usability (weight/watts/weariness).

You get retina resolution, high refresh rate, HDR, and 2Factor authentication (Biometric+Goggles)/information security in one package. Of course you'll still likely want to have a laptop to drive it (untethered) except for the simplest mobile games.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#73

Post by kurthr »

qgin wrote: post #70
mrfusion wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thought experiment: imagine fixing your car engine by tabbing around a little viewport.

Being able to zoom in and out and pan around using a medium-sized viewport though.

Takes time, distracts, and encourages a context shift.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#74

Post by jayd16 »

mrfusion wrote: post #69
jayd16 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm bullish on VR but I think the "many floating monitors around a desk" is a bad use case. I mean, you can just alt-tab through windows or desktops as it is. In my mind the real power comes from spatial hand tracking as a new UX paradigm(seeing an interacting with objects in 3d space) and possibly the addition of large displays anywhere a monitor couldn't have feasibly been, (eg, floating in the server room in a cra…

Thought experiment: imagine fixing your car engine by tabbing around a little viewport.

People do it now, if we're talking about CAD software of an engine model. I'm not sure they're clamoring for more 2d monitors. I think being able to reach into the model in 3d space is probably more natural than mouse clicks and manually moving viewports around.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#75

Post by jitl »

lostgame wrote: post #31
jitl wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal. I have and enjoy a Valve Index, but it’s stayed in the box for more than a year because I can’t figure out a socially viable spot for it in my new house. Maybe Ive’s influence on this product will make a big difference.

>> On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal. Quest 2 would like a word with you?

Quest 2 has impressive sales figures – 8 million in 2021, which is a quarter of Apple Watch at 32 million the same year. But the market for Quest 2 is very much games – I don't see much application outside that area, nor have I heard of break-through must-have or games.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#76

Post by Bud »

Mirioron wrote: post #26
xoa wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 64% of US adults wear eyeglasses. ??? I do too. What does this have to do with anything? The lens is irrelevant for something that projects right onto the retina (trivial to correct for). Hell, I'd love it for that reason alone, would be a huge improvement for my computer usage. > We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you…

> For the same reason they were thinking about the "iPad" and then "iPhone" (tablet consideration actually came first internally even though in 2004 it was redirected toward the phone first) long, long before it "viable as a consumer product" duh. You don't get out ahead of things by waiting until after your competitors do it to get started, you make it happen early with your own R&D. But that's exactly what happened…

I didn't ask why they didn't "think" about it a couple years early. I asked why they would make it a priority 10 years out.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#77

Post by qgin »

Have to say I agree with Jony Ive on all of these points.

The idea of an AR wearable that is tethered to a fixed base station is so very lame. Why even bother with AR when you can only augment the reality that is in your office or bedroom?

Also the eye-view outer display is essential for situations where one person is using the goggles but others aren’t. How unsettling would it be for someone to look at you, be able to see you, but for their upper face to completely obscured by goggles? How could you have an in person face-to-face conversation with someone like that?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#78

Post by layer8 »

jayd16 wrote: post #63
Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

I'm bullish on VR but I think the "many floating monitors around a desk" is a bad use case. I mean, you can just alt-tab through windows or desktops as it is. In my mind the real power comes from spatial hand tracking as a new UX paradigm(seeing an interacting with objects in 3d space) and possibly the addition of large displays anywhere a monitor couldn't have feasibly been, (eg, floating in the server room in a cra…

> spatial hand tracking as a new UX paradigm

I only see this as a supplemental feature for certain use cases (coarse-grained 3D operations). In general nothing beats the efficiency of working with a keyboard for navigating application functions, or (at least with current technology) the mouse for precision 2D navigation/selection. Their advantage being precise and definite/discrete input.

For actual work, even with a VR headset I see myself still mostly using keyboard and mouse.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#79

Post by layer8 »

Geee wrote: post #48
orbital-decay wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Productivity is correlated with display size That's a dubious statement. Filling the binocular field of view is fine; it's about 120° horizontally, give or take. But past that it starts to be a problem. Generally, if you look at the screen and any edge is blocked by your nose without turning your head, it's likely too large to work comfortably on. (but still fine for immersive content like games or movies)

You can turn also turn your head and move around in your room, i.e. your whole room could be full of separate displays, or just pieces of code floating in space. It's not just how much you see at a time, but how easily you can switch context.

Counterpoint: It’s faster to Alt+Tab (or using other keyboard shortcuts) than to move around the room.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#80

Post by kurthr »

orbital-decay wrote: post #41
Geee wrote: post #30

Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing. Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos wi…

> Productivity is correlated with display size That's a dubious statement. Filling the binocular field of view is fine; it's about 120° horizontally, give or take. But past that it starts to be a problem. Generally, if you look at the screen and any edge is blocked by your nose without turning your head, it's likely too large to work comfortably on. (but still fine for immersive content like games or movies)

Typical large (32") monitor with normal spacing is about 30-35deg vertical and 60-70deg horizontal and 27" is usually less. If your eyes are 20" from the screen, it's probably not healthy. Binocular field of view (without head motion) of VR systems is usually 100deg in both dimensions (20deg overlap in the middle). I'd expect Apple VR to be "retina".
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