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The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

arstechnica.com

21–30 of 201 posts

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#21
post #11
post #6

I was most surprised to find out that wearable displays haven't been a top front and center strategic priority from day 1, and instead they were thinking about the stupid ass car thing: > Apple CEO Tim Cook has been relatively hands-off from the product compared to others like the iPhone... The Information's sources say that Apple's mixed reality efforts began almost accidentally when the company purchased a German A…

64% of US adults wear eyeglasses. Heat exists. We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you don't have pressed against your face and eyes all the time. Humans interact chiefly via sight. But it has still been "obvious for ages" that wearable displays are going to be some big inevitable hit? No it hasn't. And why on earth would…

>64% of US adults wear eyeglasses.

??? I do too. What does this have to do with anything? The lens is irrelevant for something that projects right onto the retina (trivial to correct for). Hell, I'd love it for that reason alone, would be a huge improvement for my computer usage.

>We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you don't have pressed against your face and eyes all the time.

Lol? Also that you think this is relevant either is kind of confusing.

>Humans interact chiefly via sight.

Yes, hence why wearable AR/VR displays are obvious.

>But it has still been "obvious for ages" that wearable displays are going to be some big inevitable hit? No it hasn't.

Yes, it has.

>And why on earth would Apple have made this tech a priority ten years before it was viable as a consumer product?

For the same reason they were thinking about the "iPad" and then "iPhone" (tablet consideration actually came first internally even though in 2004 it was redirected toward the phone first) long, long before it "viable as a consumer product" duh. You don't get out ahead of things by waiting until after your competitors do it to get started, you make it happen early with your own R&D.

>No, Apple's desktop computer operation has not been "neglected" lately; they actually have been giving the Mac a lot of care and feeding, as evidenced by the really nice new MacBook Pro re-design, and the Mac Studio.

This is just pathetic. You cite the MacBook Pro as support for desktop computers and consider just this last year as a trend. I've been using Apple systems since the late 80s. Desktop systems have absolutely been massively neglected in the last decade. The Mac Pro got updated TWICE in TWELVE YEARS (the first of which was total shit), and that was after Apple pushed it massively up market vs their reliable good tower. The Mac Mini also had multiple years of just being left to sit there. There was zero in between them except the AIOs. And we're not talking about big redesigns but just basic normal CPU updates and the like that every single other computer manufacturer on the planet does like clockwork as a matter of course.

They might, maybe, be turning that around now but a single release does not make a trend. And that desktop systems were a distant last place in Apple's priorities vs iDevices or notebooks has been extremely obvious and is utterly uncontroversial since the 00s. That's just a statement of fact. In terms of raw income the balance shifted dramatically mid 2000s in favor of notebooks, and then of course later to iDevices. The Intel transition was driven primarily by the needs of the notebooks, not that everything else didn't come along for the ride. And Apple's corporate structure doesn't do multitasking boring stuff that well in exchange for doing single stuff incredibly well.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#22
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

> At best it might be useful at work

Unless everyone can use it, its not going to work in an office setting. A single person in a team of six who gets motion sickness with VR (very common) makes it nonviable for the entire team.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#23
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

I work in medical surgical simulation and there are incredible uses for something like AR/VR for training and tele-mentoring. Not difficult to imagine countless others.

The entertainment/gaming market is overrated - when it finally shows up, AR/VR will be all about work, productivity and interfacing. But I agree it's probably going to take a long time and I don't think it's going to be the hyped revolution everyone would like it to be.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#24
I had a low tech cyberpunk rig set up (Sony noise cancelling headphones + 4K screen on a laptop rather than an expensive, large tv and fancy speakers)

I am not sold at all on "VR". It's one of those things, like "Firefox OS", that drained Mozilla's coffers when they should have focused on designing their own Android build the way we went from Knoppix[1] to Kali[2] in a very short time.

(I wish I could have stayed, but my Chrome loving supervisor who told me he doesn't even use the browser decided I didn't do enough work to be hired on full time before he moved from Brooklyn to Switzerland)

[1] https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=knoppix

[2] https://www.kali.org/get-kali/

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#25
The cost of the external eye displays seem absolutely crazy.

Two extra external displays in raw hardware. But worse, they are on the front in exactly the place you want to place the passthrough cameras, so now you have to do extra image processing to virtually reposition the input as if it were on the eyes. So it makes passthrough dev more difficult.

It must be extremely compelling to see those eye screens in action. It must be selling onlookers on the device. That's the only that could justify that much effort?

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#26
post #21
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

64% of US adults wear eyeglasses. Heat exists. We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you don't have pressed against your face and eyes all the time. Humans interact chiefly via sight. But it has still been "obvious for ages" that wearable displays are going to be some big inevitable hit? No it hasn't. And why on earth would…

> 64% of US adults wear eyeglasses. ??? I do too. What does this have to do with anything? The lens is irrelevant for something that projects right onto the retina (trivial to correct for). Hell, I'd love it for that reason alone, would be a huge improvement for my computer usage. > We're already basically at the limits of physics for making CPUs faster and heat dissipation is a huge issue even for products that you…

>For the same reason they were thinking about the "iPad" and then "iPhone" (tablet consideration actually came first internally even though in 2004 it was redirected toward the phone first) long, long before it "viable as a consumer product" duh. You don't get out ahead of things by waiting until after your competitors do it to get started, you make it happen early with your own R&D.

But that's exactly what happened with the iPad though. Apple's competitors had already released tablet-type devices for years, they just weren't really ready as consumer products: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Tablet_PC

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#27
post #10
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

The only real application I can see of AR is to have face recognition that would show a person's real name and other information about them as you see them. Privacy aside, I don't think that would really take off either as I just don't think most people are that interested in people they don't know.

AR for museum guides? For tourism? New sports? Not to mention all the business, industrial, and other applications. Medical AR, overlaying imaging during surgery, or visualizing heart rates, electrical activity, O2 concentration, etc.

The uses of AR are endless and much more than just Minority Report type stuff.

And then as the controllers get better and more integrated, you get the sort of thing that currently only pilots of an F35 get, in terms of being aware of their environment.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#28
post #9
post #5

AR simply has no known value to users, the best SciFi has to offer is sex ads while walking down the street. AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. All these companies are lying and faking and delaying to collect $ while people like HN are stupid enough to believe in them. Zuckerberg's latest video blanked out the "AR" glasses. Google also lied and used fake demos glasses in theirs. Magic Lea…

All of your recent posts showed as dead, but I vouched for this one so I can reply as I very much disagree with one part. > AR is technically impossible with current and near future tech. This is simply not true, there’s been numerous AR products built (just not runaway success stories). IMHO, it’s not “technically impossible”, it’s “prohibitively expensive” generally to get the experience that’s been hyped.

F-35 pilots would also tend to disagree, sure, their helmets have been through a lot of revision and development, but they do provide (apparently) good enhancements for pilots coming from more conventional (eg HUD) environments.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#29
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, no one has released a VR system with mass market appeal. I have and enjoy a Valve Index, but it’s stayed in the box for more than a year because I can’t figure out a socially viable spot for it in my new house. Maybe Ive’s influence on this product will make a big difference.

VR seems to have an insurmountable motion sickness problem. I tried the Quest with a dozen friends and half of them felt sick enough within minutes to never try it again.

You just need to start with the basics, take a break the moment you feel ill, and keep going. Within a few weeks most people are entirely used to it.

Re: The saga of Apple’s troubled mixed reality headset

#30
Productivity is correlated with display size, and VR should be the next step in productivity, because it allows your whole space to become a display and an interface. When paired with powerful hardware and innovative software it should be the next step in computing.

Therefore, VR should be a replacement for large displays in productive work, not a device that everyone is wearing outside or casually watching videos with. The use cases are professional; such as programming, CAD, design etc. I believe that properly implemented VR would allow utilizing full visual-spatial capabilities of our brains, totally eliminating the process of hunting for files and switching windows.

It would be possible to dive into code and see it all at once like an intricate factory. Our brains are capable of navigating very complex environments, but this capability is lost when its viewed through a small window.

I wish they'd explore this area, rather than go for a mass market appeal. What kind of software is possible, and how much productivity can be increased with maxed out hardware with high resolution VR? I'm not sure if 4K resolution with a M2 chip is powerful enough for a truly innovative product. Maybe it is, but there's still room for a "pro" product.

I don't think there's a use case for glasses-type product, with a watch-like functionality and environmental AR which would show information pop-ups everywhere. We already have information overload, and we don't need any more of that.

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