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Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

bbc.com

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Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#101

Post by notyourwork »

ryanSrich wrote: post #59
hellisothers wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe this works as an IC that has no collaborative aspect to their day-to-day but as an IC leader async adds material pauses and latency into projects. If everybody is ok with everything taking longer at the start and end of projects then cool (the middle implementation phase is less impacted) but taking a day to answer a question that could have taken minutes is not a bonus.

I’m a CTO and startup founder. We ship faster and more often than any team I’ve worked on or observed (multiple times per week). I think your assumption are bad.

Without being dismissive of your opinion, being the CTO of a startup doesn’t really say much. I can be the CTO of a startup after I finish an undergrad in computer science or I can be the CTO of a multiple rounds of funding unicorn. So qualifying your opinion with the generic “I’m a CTO and founder” perhaps isn’t a sufficient credence to suggest your experience holds clout.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#102

Post by chillwaves »

ameister14 wrote: post #83
arinlen wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Here's the thing; that doesn't actually work well to make good products. Sure, a bunch of companies (...) Respectfully,you know nothing about what you're talking about. Async work is already the norm for some companies, even prior to moves to full remote work. I personally know teams in renowned companies which before COVID already split teams working on products between the US, Europe, and India. They stuck with f…

respectfully, you completely misread my comment. "make software development purely transactional and performance/pay would be directly tied to metrics." That's what doesn't work to make good products. A focus on individual metrics to the exclusion of team dynamics doesn't work that well. "What I'm seeing is a lazy, conservative mindset of people who feel scared and threatened by a reform shaking up the very core of a…

I don't feel like your arguments support your assertion. There are multiple ways to run a company/do business/ship products.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#103

Post by sibit »

Agamus wrote: post #33
izacus wrote: post #19

There's a lot of "considering" and "thinking" in this article, but how many people are ACTUALLY quitting over that? What's the increase in turnover because of WFH policies? A few % total? EDIT: Oh, just saw this in the article: >Although there isn’t any hard data to show increased quits due to ending flexible work specifically, anecdotes of worker exits are starting to trickle in. Carry on then.

I have worked from home for the past two years, and my company has started the return-to-work policy last week. I applied for, and was given, full remote status. If they had not done this, I would have definitely found another job that was willing. Click-bait indeed, but while I'm a small sample size, the idea checks-out to me.

I tried to do the same thing. On the first day back in the office I was venting to my manager about all the issues I had with working at the office (noise, smells, talkative coworkers) and I requested the ability to resume remote work. Later that day I was pulled into an impromptu meeting with my manager, our VP, the CEO, and the HR manager. They explained that they knew I had a great work ethic and that I was one of the top developers, however, I couldn't work remotely because it would be "unfair" to the developers. The claimed the rest of the team could not be trusted to work remotely therefor I couldn't either. I'm not sure if what they said was true but I applied at 4 jobs that evening, scheduled all 3 interviews within the week, and put in my notice by the end of the second week.

I'm also a small sample size but the idea checks-out to me too.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#104

Post by ameister14 »

chillwaves wrote: post #102
ameister14 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

respectfully, you completely misread my comment. "make software development purely transactional and performance/pay would be directly tied to metrics." That's what doesn't work to make good products. A focus on individual metrics to the exclusion of team dynamics doesn't work that well. "What I'm seeing is a lazy, conservative mindset of people who feel scared and threatened by a reform shaking up the very core of a…

I don't feel like your arguments support your assertion. There are multiple ways to run a company/do business/ship products.

Sure, there are multiple ways to run a company, but people aren't machines. A pure focus on measurables to the exclusion of soft motivation and skill has proven to be less effective. I'm honestly surprised you believe otherwise.

This has borne out time and again from artisan shops to factories to software.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#105

Post by missedthecue »

oohaboga wrote: post #51

I like my coworkers professionally and enjoy building stuff together, but hate contacting with them otherwise, like team-events, lunches, smalltalk near the coffee machine. Remote work has been such a blessing.

I love that stuff. My company is remote optional, but most days I'm the only person in the office which defeats the point. I wish I could find a hiring board for in-office only companies.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#106

Post by [deleted] »

Agamus wrote: post #33
izacus wrote: post #19

There's a lot of "considering" and "thinking" in this article, but how many people are ACTUALLY quitting over that? What's the increase in turnover because of WFH policies? A few % total? EDIT: Oh, just saw this in the article: >Although there isn’t any hard data to show increased quits due to ending flexible work specifically, anecdotes of worker exits are starting to trickle in. Carry on then.

I have worked from home for the past two years, and my company has started the return-to-work policy last week. I applied for, and was given, full remote status. If they had not done this, I would have definitely found another job that was willing. Click-bait indeed, but while I'm a small sample size, the idea checks-out to me.

[deleted]

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#107

Post by nprateem »

I've decided to quit since my remote job won't let me work abroad. That's a dealbreaker now given the summer. I'm just left wondering why I should be tied to the UK instead of being able to explore all of Europe and further afield. There's no real reason, so I've started looking around.

If anyone wants an expensive, fully remote contractor with experience as an AWS SRE (golang, python, k8s, terraform, bash), full-stack web dev (django, vueJS, some react, forgotten PHP), rusty big data (scala & spark) a part-time MBA in progress, and a 30 day notice period, let me know :)

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#108

Post by deegles »

I got Covid last month. I have the vaccine and a booster and it still took me out for a week. Why should I continue to risk re-infection and long Covid? Do I wear a mask while in Zoom calls if I'm sitting in a shared area? Do I have to call out coworkers not wearing a mask? Will the next variants actually cause less severe symptoms or is that just wishful thinking? Am I overreacting or not? There are a thousand questions that I just don't have to deal with if I just choose to work from home permanently.

I encourage everyone who gets a message from a recruiter to make it clear you'll only accept WFH, that feedback trickles back to hiring managers and might slowly change their minds.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#109

Post by SpicyLemonZest »

mmarq wrote: post #50
spookthesunset wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am beginning to think that many remote developers will eventually become 1099 contractors who can pick up random gigs. Because let’s be honest, the reason most of these folks are doing this is because they don’t give a crap about the specific company or anything like that. They just want to build cool shit that other people spec out. As long as the pay is competitive one day they might be building a healthcare mobi…

Is one supposed to be anything but a mercenary? Should I believe in the product for the sake of making the CEO a billionaire? People should care iff they are given meaningful equity, as in life changing, otherwise they should be professional, like accountants and lawyers, but jump ship whenever it’s convenient.

I don't know that "should" is the right word. It's possible and reasonably common in software to obtain career fulfillment beyond simply making a lot of money; I don't think you have some moral obligation to do that, but you should understand that other people do and that this is why they may have work style preferences which seem strange or confusing to you.

Re: Workers quitting over return-to-office policies

#110

Post by nprateem »

vermooten wrote: post #45

I'm still genuinely uncertain why companies are so desperate to get staff into the office. 'Business people' like HR, sales, marketing LOVE being together in person; Engineers somewhat less so. Given that companies tend to be run by 'business people' then yeah I think I just answered my own question.

It's because it's much more difficult to brainwash you into the company culture while you're remote. Even when they run large video chats, most people probably just leave the laptop on and go and do something actually enjoyable.
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